If you plan on running, say, 6:10 pace for a marathon, how beneficial is it to do shorter repeats (1000m - 2miles)at sub-5:30 pace. I'd imagine that it would probably help your performance more doing longer progression runs and tempos at slightly below Marathon pace (6-5:50?)- maybe doing a few quicker repeats a week or two before the 'thon would help, but I find it tough to believe that faster stuff is vital for a good marathon performance.
All of those paces will help. Faster paces contribute to longer runs, because they help to improve your pace in that longer run.
Then that longer run contributes to the fasters paces by increasing endurance at those faster paces, etc etc.
the stuff closer to mp is more important, lets just say 30% of your training. but the faster stuff, whether its 10k pace or mile pace, helps tremendously with running economy and would probably make up 10-15% of marathon training. it makes your body much more efficient while running at 610 pace or almost any speed.
Speedwork is necessary. Not 400's, but 800-1600 meter stuff and 4-8 mile tempo runs will really help you. The seering pain you get closing out the last couple 10x800 intervals will toughen you up and prepare you for what you will feel over the last couple miles of the marathon.
I always found speed work to be psychologically helpful. If you're body is used to rolling at 5:10 pace, then 6:10 pace will seem like a breeze. You'll hit 13 miles fresh as a daisy and thinking, "I only have 13 to go - this is easy". Just be careful about going out too fast.
It would help to specify if you mean miles or km. This changes the answer significantly.For a first time marathoner who plans a 6:10 min/km pace, targeting a 4:20 marathon, the objective is most likely just to finish, and may as well just do all of his runs at "easy" pace simply to develop sufficient endurance. Tempo runs and speedwork are not vital for this first time marathoner.But I guess you mean 6:10 km/mile, targeting a 2:41:41 time. The answer then depends on your principles.There is a principle of specificity, which says that only paces around a race pace specifically benefit that race pace. My rule of thumb is +/- 20%. This means paces from 5:00 to 7:30 min/mi. should still provide some specific benefit. Outside of that, the training takes on a different purpose (e.g. general recovery, or for sprints)For a 6:10 min/mi pace, 5:30 is about 10K pace, and 4:50 is about 1600m pace.There is another principle of balance. You can surely put in a good marathon performance strictly on tempo runs, progression runs, and long easy runs. But at some point, strength and speed (and form?) become your weak points, and the remaining improvements will come from developing these weaknesses.One last "rule of thumb" I've heard. For your first marathon, you should add 15 minutes simply due to inexperience of race pacing.
first time thoner wrote:
If you plan on running, say, 6:10 pace for a marathon, how beneficial is it to do shorter repeats (1000m - 2miles)at sub-5:30 pace. I'd imagine that it would probably help your performance more doing longer progression runs and tempos at slightly below Marathon pace (6-5:50?)- maybe doing a few quicker repeats a week or two before the 'thon would help, but I find it tough to believe that faster stuff is vital for a good marathon performance.
Ooops! make that "6:10 min/mile". Nothing like being pedantic, and getting it wrong.
Mr. Ray wrote:
...
But I guess you mean 6:10 km/mile, ...
It depends on what you mean by "speed." When I ran 2:41, my second fastest marathon and about the pace you're looking to run I did not do any interval sessions at all. But I did most of my running at a pretty good clip relative to the race time. I recall doing some 10 mile runs in a bit under an hour, had many fartlek sessions where I never knew how fast I was running but was well under marathon pace for various lengths of time, and rarely ran slower than 6:30 pace in training. I also raced fairly frequently in the three months prior to the race. I still regard racing as the best form of "speedwork."
Mr. Ray wrote:
One last "rule of thumb" I've heard. For your first marathon, you should add 15 minutes simply due to inexperience of race pacing.
So Hall is good for a 1:53 any day now? That's the worst "rule of thumb" I've ever heard.
Even sprints help marathoners by improving muscle and energy effeciency.
Alan
Runningart2004 wrote:
Even sprints help marathoners by improving muscle and energy effeciency.
Alan
Yes. I also meant to mention this but forgot.
fUrCeOsNhN wrote:
Mr. Ray wrote:One last "rule of thumb" I've heard. For your first marathon, you should add 15 minutes simply due to inexperience of race pacing.
So Hall is good for a 1:53 any day now? That's the worst "rule of thumb" I've ever heard.
For many (the vast majority of people I suspect), they are undertrained for the marathon regardless of how fast they run 10K's and they often go out too fast and implode. Hall is very experienced as a runner.
I think it is a good "guide" although not confident in the 15 minutes.
Oh, you found an exception to a rule. How clever. That almost never happens. Well spotted.So you think that everyone gets the marathon training and pace judgement right the first time, as a rule?
Mr. Ray wrote:
One last "rule of thumb" I've heard. For your first marathon, you should add 15 minutes simply due to inexperience of race pacing.
fUrCeOsNhN wrote:
So Hall is good for a 1:53 any day now? That's the worst "rule of thumb" I've ever heard.
No. "An" speedwork is not even necessary for English class.
You missed neces"scary"...
over there wrote:
No. "An" speedwork is not even necessary for English class.