What spot would a 26 flat 8k be on a top 20 D1 team?
What spot would a 26 flat 8k be on a top 20 D1 team?
for a top-10 team, you wouldn't make the cut.
for a team ranked 11 to 20, they might let you on, but you'd have to work your ass off and risk injury.
5 guys running 5 min pace on ncaa race day place in the top 5 at at nationals.
so ... despite nutrition advice's "advice" he would be wrong.
Nutrition is someone who never ran at a competitive school.
As someone who ran for a top 15 team and we were ranked top 10 at one point in D1, 26 flat would make the cut because those good coaches would develop you into something.
I ran 26 mid freshman year, trained with the team and ran in the low 24's 2 years later.
Most of the top teams will have 4-5 guys who can average 4:55-5:00 pace for 8k and then they'll have a stand out. Our 6 and 7th guys my senior year had PR's of 25:45 and 26:02. You can train with the top teams, but be prepared to be humbled a lot. The gap in ability will become quite clear and causes A LOT of guys with decent PR's to just quit and go party.
It's more mental because you will be on the track with guys that can do mile repeats in 4:20 while you are doing repeats at 4:45. They will tempo run at your race pace, etc.
hick financial advice wrote:
5 guys running 5 min pace on ncaa race day place in the top 5 at at nationals.
so ... despite nutrition advice's "advice" he would be wrong.
First, running 5 flat pace for 10k and 8k are different things. A 25:00 8k does not equal a 31:15 10k.
Second, the teams that averaged 31:15 placed 18th-23rd at NCAA's in 2007 (Georgetown averaged over 32 in 13th place because an injured Taye came in dead last). In 2006 the course was very, very slow, so that's irrelevant. In 2005 teams averaging 31:18 placed 21st through 25th (5-flat plus a couple tenths of a second).
Third, a guy with a 26-minute 8k PR probably would not run the equivalent of that PR on the NCAA nationals course because while it's not the most difficult course, there are hills. And there are many cross country courses that are significantly easier than Terra Haute where presumably this 26-minute 8k runner would have run faster at, say that Paul Short Invitational at Lehigh. In other words he'd be a 26:30 guy on that Terra Haute 8k course meaning he'd be worthless to even more NCAA teams.
Fourth, there's a world of difference between 5-minute pace for 10k, and roughly 5:15 pace for 10k (26:00 8k converted to 10k--about 32:50). Many runners racing in that world of difference get cut from their elite cross country programs.
To answer the OP's question: the size of any cross country team varies so significantly that that 26:00 8k runner very well could walk on to a very large top-5 school (maybe Iona?), or not even be allowed to try out for a school that didn't make the top 20 at NCAAs (possibly Arkansas?). A very short-handed top-20 team may even give this runner a partial scholarship if they're having trouble filling the roster though that's unlikely.
NCAA National courses are so pathetically easy that it is unreal, Jesus - they might as well have them on the roads or on the track.
26min will get you on a team. It won't solidify top 7 or 9. That one dude's post about top guys is absolutely on.
I was the number 5 guy on my team back in the day and ran 5.05 miles for 10k. I knew that I realistically should have been a strong six or seven considering my top 4 guys were AAs.But hey, it is what it is, and at that time that's what it turned out to be.
Courses at any other race other than NCAA Div I are actually .25 to .75 miles short. Additionaly, degrees from anything other than a DI school are practically worthless and graduates are actually handed welfare applications instead of diplomas at "graduation".
If they are running repeat miles in 4:20 and only racing 4:55 - 5:00 then something is amiss. But agree in general with your post.Typical team breakdown -1 stud - 23:xx - low 24:00s2 - 4 guys mid/high 24s - mid 25sthe rest are 26:00 type guys.
fadfad wrote:
Nutrition is someone who never ran at a competitive school.
As someone who ran for a top 15 team and we were ranked top 10 at one point in D1, 26 flat would make the cut because those good coaches would develop you into something.
I ran 26 mid freshman year, trained with the team and ran in the low 24's 2 years later.
Most of the top teams will have 4-5 guys who can average 4:55-5:00 pace for 8k and then they'll have a stand out. Our 6 and 7th guys my senior year had PR's of 25:45 and 26:02. You can train with the top teams, but be prepared to be humbled a lot. The gap in ability will become quite clear and causes A LOT of guys with decent PR's to just quit and go party.
It's more mental because you will be on the track with guys that can do mile repeats in 4:20 while you are doing repeats at 4:45. They will tempo run at your race pace, etc.
that should read "typical top 20 team breakdown"
typical college team ...
some guys in he 24s, some 25 guys, some 26 guys, some 27+ guys.
It sounds as if the top 20 teams are composed of "Alien Spacemen from Mars"; however, the vast majority of college NCAA teams are made up of Letsrun and Dyestat posters - with a few foreigners thrown into the mix, and that's about it.
Pointer outer guy - I was talking about how working out with a stud runner - I had a guy on my team who got top 5 at XC nationals and HE would hit repeats in 4:20-4:25 while our main pack would be 4:45 and it would be so discouraging.
My main point was being at a major XC school will be more mentality tough at points than others. Watching our stud TEMPO some of the guys race pace at 6:00am on a Thursday morning was humbling and discouraging to a lot of guys.
I didn't think it was that unclear in my post.
Sure, a degree from Amherst, Swarthmore, Williams, Middlebury, Pomona, Bowdoin, Emory, Washington University or NYU is totally worthless. You are much better off at hometown U.
ha ha. you actually thought that guy's post was serious?
I believe the question was what do you think the average college 8k is...I'm glad to see everyone here can read considering no one has answered that question.
Anyways, if you are taking into account all of DIII, DII, and DI runners I would say that the average NCAA 8k is 27:30. Mind you there are a lot of people running 23-25s in DI but there are also a ton of kids who can't break 30 or 31 min in DIII. So the spread is obviously pretty large, we must take that into account. So when looking at the whole spectrum of things across all of college running I think it is safe to say that this would be the average 8k time.
lolz!! There was also the question about the spot a 26 flat runner would be on a top 20 team. haha...oops...my b!
How is it more humbling than showing up at a race and being 1:30 behind the leader? Or getting lapped in the 10k?
fadfad wrote:
Pointer outer guy - I was talking about how working out with a stud runner - I had a guy on my team who got top 5 at XC nationals and HE would hit repeats in 4:20-4:25 while our main pack would be 4:45 and it would be so discouraging.
My main point was being at a major XC school will be more mentality tough at points than others. Watching our stud TEMPO some of the guys race pace at 6:00am on a Thursday morning was humbling and discouraging to a lot of guys.
I didn't think it was that unclear in my post.
Ha, I used to live at 16th and Spruce. Whaddup. Miss that place.
probably around 15th-20th depending on how many guys are on the team