Why did Hall run a "smart race"

First of all, 10th isn't awful, especially considering it was only Ritz's third marathon. He ran a good race.

Hall, I agree, went away fromw hat has worked for him in the past, and it likely cost him. He was six minutes off his PR while Ritz was a minute off. For a guy who thrives on sticking his nose in with the big dogs, it must've been a very odd feeling for Hall to be running alone halfway through the race.

I don't think anyone expected a 2:06 today, so you can't totally blame him for laying off the early pace a bit. But, at the same time, you need to recognize where the main competitors are in the race and adjust accordingly. It's not like it was a 2:10 guy up there busting the first half at world-record pace. It was the Kenyans and Ethiopians, so Hall should've taken the early pace seriously and not assumed (if we are to assume he was expecting them to fade) they'd come back. Then again, maybe he tried to go with them and just couldn't handle the heat.

only 12 runners ran their *first* half faster than Wanjiru's 2nd half (1:03:58). He absolutely blew everybody away except Gharib. There is no way Hall, Ritz etc could have come close.

Hall went out in 1:04:29 - incredibley rational, considering 2:10 got 3rd (a reasonable assumption when the gun went off).

It is a fantasy to think that Hall, Ritz Sell etc can compete with these guys.

Rothlin came close in 6th (2nd half 1:06:42), but he still only picked up 24 seconds on Kebede from the half.

Right Ritz only ahd the 48th seed time, Sell the 45th, neither could go out with those guys. Hall with the 4th seed time should have, but who knows?

Off the Grid wrote:

It is a fantasy to think that Hall, Ritz Sell etc can compete with these guys.

It's not fair to say that about Hall going into the race. He has a 2:06:17 PR, you know that right?

in a rabbited race, 20 degrees cooler.

The best outcome would have been bronze, and to do that, he would have gone w/ Rothlin (as he did for 25-30km) and then blown by him. Not even close....

Off the Grid wrote:

in a rabbited race, 20 degrees cooler.

The best outcome would have been bronze, and to do that, he would have gone w/ Rothlin (as he did for 25-30km) and then blown by him. Not even close....

Yadda yadda yadda. It WAS reasonable to think Hall COULD compete with those guys today. He didn't, but he certainly had the potential to.

it's a marathon

shit happens. hall followed a plan not all that dissimilar to the one that got Keflezighi and Kastor their medals given similarly hot conditions.

i hope you went to the bookies and said that 2'06"34 was going to win, given your incredible foresight.

Off the Grid wrote:

in a rabbited race, 20 degrees cooler.

Everyone faced the same conditions today, just like everyone faced the same conditions in London when Hall was right with Wansiru.

Thats right! And unfortunately, the Olympic Marathon was today and not last April.So Wanjiru (4 yrs younger than Hall) showed his "potential" and won.

fall down drunk wrote:

Off the Grid wrote:

in a rabbited race, 20 degrees cooler.

Everyone faced the same conditions today, just like everyone faced the same conditions in London when Hall was right with Wansiru.

had hall gone out with the leaders, he would have blown up even more. he was running 16 minute 5ks at the end. there's no way that he could have expected a 2:06 and 2:07 to be thrown down. as noted above, meb and deena sat back like that in athens and it worked.

If Hall split 1:04:29 and still ran the second half in about 1:08, why would going out with the leaders in sub 1:03 have been a good idea?

We should not be questioning Hall's tactics, we should be questioning his fitness.

Huh? The point was that your idiotic posting of the conditions in London had no bearing on whether or not Hall could have been competitive in today's race. It's not like Wanjiru's race in April was in hot weather and Hall's was in London. They were pretty equal runners on that day, so to say that Hall could not have been expected to compete with him today is idiotic.

Off the Grid wrote:

Thats right! And unfortunately, the Olympic Marathon was today and not last April.

So Wanjiru (4 yrs younger than Hall) showed his "potential" and won.

fall down drunk wrote:

Everyone faced the same conditions today, just like everyone faced the same conditions in London when Hall was right with Wansiru.

fall down drunk wrote:

Yadda yadda yadda. It WAS reasonable to think Hall COULD compete with those guys today. He didn't, but he certainly had the potential to.

I don't for one second believe it was reasonable for hall to compete with the winner. He is capable of runnign 203 in my mind. 3 minutes faster then hall's pr.

In my opinion hall went out to hard even, so did Ritz. They were both out in around 206 pace and continued to fade off that pace for the first 4 miles or so. When the leaders went out in 441, they should have been even further off that pace then they were.

If hall and ritz had been running 4:55's the first 6 miles, they might have been in contention for bronze at the end. So whereas you are critizing them for going out to slow, i'm saying they went out to hard.

I am a fan of Hall, Ritz and Sell but when I read Hall's blog about getting over to Bejing and being amazed at how hot and humid it was and how much he sweat after a 30 minute run I knew he had no chance. Ritz prepared the best for the conditions...9th is pretty good considering his pr., for Hall 10th is not that great, and Sell did his best but can't be all that happy with his finish. At least we didn't have any DNF's or 2:30's...

Mrr82 wrote:

fall down drunk wrote:

Yadda yadda yadda. It WAS reasonable to think Hall COULD compete with those guys today. He didn't, but he certainly had the potential to.

I don't for one second believe it was reasonable for hall to compete with the winner. He is capable of runnign 203 in my mind. 3 minutes faster then hall's pr.

In my opinion hall went out to hard even, so did Ritz. They were both out in around 206 pace and continued to fade off that pace for the first 4 miles or so. When the leaders went out in 441, they should have been even further off that pace then they were.

If hall and ritz had been running 4:55's the first 6 miles, they might have been in contention for bronze at the end. So whereas you are critizing them for going out to slow, i'm saying they went out to hard.

I never said they went out too slow.

You are mistaking the idea of what was possible going into the race with what we can see in hindsight. In hindsight, yes, Hall was not capable of running with Wanjiru today. But, based on the evidence we had BEFORE the race, it was reasonable to think he could run on equal terms with Wanjiru.

Hall did not train in the weather conditions he faced today.

Fall Down Drunk and Chino are right.

A marathon is just too unpredictable. Plus, the pace for the first half could easily have been considered suicidal given the heat. If those five guys would have all faded like the Ethiopean that took 4th sorta did, there would have been no shortage of people saying how smart Hall and Ritz were, how they "knew" those front runners were gonna die and come back to everyone.

I'm sure Hall and Ritz weren't happy with how things were going, when they were 4 minutes behind--I'm sure they knew they couldn't get back in the race if someone was telling them where the leaders were. You can't be at your best every day, especially in the marathon. It is just not always your day, regardless of fitness.

Hats off to the Gold and Silver finishers especially. They pulled it off. Who could have guessed a 2:06 when they were lining up on the starting line? Look back at nearly every Olympic marathon from the last 50 years: The first 10 miles is pretty much jogging (to them). No one wants to lead and end up doing all the work.

Hindsight is 20/20.

the conditions in London have everything to do with it

Wanjiru and Hall faced the same conditions in April.

They faced the same conditions today and Wanjiru ran faster than Fukuoka 9 months ago (10-11 degrees).

It is completely naive to think Hall or any but a handful of runners will touch Wanjiru, Gharib etc. Gharib was dead on his feet @ 20km and hung with the lead pack the whole time. That is what is takes...get rich or die trying.

This race today, the 10k, the 5k....these have made it abundantly clear what it takes to be in the top ranks of world class distance running, and Hall showed he is CLEARLY not in that category.

That doesn't mean he is a anything other than a top tier runner - it means that the game has been upped in the past 2 weeks to a degree most don't yet fully comprehend.

You just proved my point without knowing it. "Hall showed today..." is exactly what I was talking about. You know, the whole hindsight thing? It doesn't change the fact that prior to the face, it was reasonable to expect Hall to be close to Wanjiru since he had been close to him just a few months earlier. 10 miles into today's race, it was clear Hall wasn't in his class. And that's not because Hall was overrated, it was because Wanjiru took it to a whole other level, which further solidifies my point about the prerace expectations. I know this is a tough concept for someone like you to grasp, but if you try really hard, consult a dictionary or two, you might be able to understand.