What do workouts such as 8-10 * 400m @ mile pace with 1 min. rest and 12-6 * 200m @ 800m pace with :45 sec. rest work to improve and when in the season should they be done. My old coach used to have us do them at a number of different (random) points in the year.
The workout teaches race pace (assuming your are running a 800/1500m) and should generate a decent amount of lactate acid so you should get better with running while in oxygen debt. You also give the heart a pretty good workout since you should be getting up to close to 100% after the first couple of intervals.
bmp
What I'm really wondering is when in a season these intervals should be completed. I have feeling my old coach was misemploying them.
I realize that petty training questions are not going to generate a ton of buzz during the Olympics, so here are a couple additions:
Lagat looked really weak in the 1500m semi. Has he been sick? This probably doesn't bode well for the 5000m but who knows.
And Bolt is a bada@@! His starts suck and it doesn't matter one bit. No wonder he seems so chill at the biggest sporting event on the planet.
When they should be run depends on what other workouts are planned later in the season.
If you repeat it at random points during the year it could also serve as a mid-distance runner's benchmark workout.A repeatable workout where you can measure progress.
If you run 400s at mile pace and are able to sustain that pace with 1:00 rest my guess is that you should be in great shape for a mid-distance race (ie: mile). If however you are unable to sustain the pace then you know what you need to work on (endurance at that pace). If you sustain the pace, but it was slower than expected than you know what you need to work on (faster race pace).
A similar workout would be 4-5 x 1mile w/2:00 rest at 5k pace. If you are not in great shape then you will probably slow down quite a bit in the last couple reps. As the season progresses and you repeat the workout each month you should 1. be able to sustain the pace and 2. increase the speed.
Alan
eraserhead wrote:
What do workouts such as 8-10 * 400m @ mile pace with 1 min. rest and 12-6 * 200m @ 800m pace with :45 sec. rest work to improve and when in the season should they be done. My old coach used to have us do them at a number of different (random) points in the year.
You are practising race pace, it's as simple as that. The main benefits of such workouts are improvements in your ability to maintain the right amount of power and efficiency in your stride, this takes a lot of practice and you can never get too good at this.
Do you want a complicated explanation from people who think they have a grasp of the physiology? Forget about all that bullschidtt, learning race pace is what it's all about.
I\'m also quite interested in this topic. A question for you, Alan:
What is the relationship of these workouts with really Anaerobic workouts (i.e. repeat 200\'s/400\'s at faster than 800/1500 race pace with 3-5 min recovery) - when should each of them be done in relation to each other? I had thought that you save these super fast 200/400 type workouts more for the end of the season, or should they be done rather consistently throughout?
Do you think they should be done more frequently than these 400\'s @ race pace/short recovery workouts or less frequently (depending on the time of the season)?
Thanks.
These workouts (400s fast with short recovery) actually develop your aerobic system. Anytime you are trying to train while "out of breath" and while the byproducts of glcolysis are flooding your system you are trying to increase your ability to sustain that speed without getting "out of breath" or building up those byproducts. The result of this training (400s fast with short recovery) should be that you are able to sustain that same speed without getting quite as fatigued.
When you run these workouts just depends on what race you are running. mid-distance guys would want to do them more often because this type of work is closer to their race demands. Longer distance guys (5k/10) should focus more on work at their race speed. The above type of work (400s fast with short recovery) I think would be better served at the beginning of the training season to "get you in shape". This would also be the time you'd race shorter races in preparation for the longer races later in the season. This is an ideal situation for a college athlete running indoor and outdoor. Focus on the 1500/3k indoor then 5k/10k outdoor. Focus on "getting into shape" with these above workouts and short races along with the usual endurance work. Then when the peak outdoor season comes along you switch focus to your key races and workouts. Mile repeats at 5k pace or 2mile repeats at 10k pace done once once or twice a month as key race prediction workouts. Of course you'd have other workouts to focus on speed and endurance.
Anaerobic workouts (200/400s really fast long recovery) develop sustainable speed. 100-200s I would include all year round because they develop actual top end speed, are a great strength/power workout, and develop neuromuscular control. IE: Short fast reps teach your body how to run effeciently. Really fast 400s with long rest might benefit a mid distance guy, 800-1500m runner as that is close to his race pace.
You know why most coaches want you to run shorter and faster reps at the end of the season? Because they have neglected them the entire year. If you occasionally add in short fast reps throughout the year your body always knows how to run effeciently then and so you can focus your last few weeks of training on what matters most: speed at race effort.
Try this:
Monday: Run an uptempo 5 miles. Record your time.
Wednesday: Run something short and fast, a fartlek, various lengths (1-3 minutes) fast fast fast, but with enough recovery that you're not shit the next day. We are basically working on leg turnover/neuromuscular coordination
Thursday or Friday: Run an uptempo 5 miles Record your time.
My bet is that your 2nd 5 mile tempo will be much faster. Why? Your body learned how to run effeciently the previous day.
3 months of easy summer or winter mileage only teaches you how to run slow. You need to mix it up.
Alan
Alan,
Thanks, that was an incredibly helpful post. Just want to clarify one point, as everything else was great: when you say 100-200's should be done all year round (for a miler/middle-distance type guy in particular), should the reps be real fast/long rest or slower/short rest?
E.g. A 10x150 or 8x200 workout of the kind you described should have how much rest?
Thanks again.
After re-reading Daniels it seems that for a miler these workouts (10 * 400m @ mile pace) could be substituted for V02 Max workouts during the 6-month phase before the season. Daniels is pretty firm about his interval pace being arount 5k pace (that's the one thing that bugs me about Daniels: the limited nature of his workouts pacewise) but I imagine that these workouts serve a similar function at a faster pace.
the 6-week period that is
Lightning bolt - I'm not sure I can speak for Alan, but I'm pretty sure for a workout of 10x150 or 8x200 you'll want long enough rest so that you're fairly recovered. Because the goal of the workout is to be more efficient at those paces (and overall) / achieve better top speed, you need to be in control enough so that you're not straining.
For workouts where you go slower and have less rest, I don't know if you'd ever do as few as 8 200's - in college we would do 30. That sort of thing is meant to prepare you for the strain of mid-race, so it necessarily has to mimic in-race conditions.
I actually tried doing 8x200 today and I used about 2 minutes rest. It seemed to be about right - the limiting factor was muscular rather than aerobic at that amount of rest. I don't think it would hurt to take 3 minutes, even. For the 30x200 I've done, I use the remainder of 60 seconds as the rest (which sucks, you really need a partner to make it through that one).
Boingo,
Yeah, I guess I was partially confused as to one part of Alan's post:
"100-200s I would include all year round because they develop actual top end speed, are a great strength/power workout, and develop neuromuscular control. IE: Short fast reps teach your body how to run efficiently."
All of my questions referred to this part:
a) In saying he would inlcude them all year round, did he mean for Miler/mid-distance guys or 5k-and-higher guys? I'm assuming Miler/mid-distance guys, but wanted to make sure.
b) What pace do you run them at - race pace, or faster?
c) What rest do you take?
Your 8x200 workout, for example - was that faster than race pace, or at race pace?
And, oh yeah, we used to do that short rest 200 workout in HS when I ran - we called them "200's on the minute", and they did indeed suck (and we never got anywhere near 30 of 'em).
I think he meant to say include them all year around for mile/mid-distance folks. But I don't think I would neglect them as a 5k runner either. 10k and marathon I don't think I would really touch those kind of reps too much because it seems even at a level of competition like USATF Nationals those events are won by sheer strength. 5k, not so much. I'd maybe say make one out of every six workouts for a miler be this type - maybe one out of every eight to ten for a 5k guy.
This is me talking as a post-collegiate, though - if I had a cross country season (instead of just training for track as I am) I would do things differently.
I did an 800m time trial about two weeks ago and ran 1:58 - I ran 27, 27, 28, 27, 28, 28, 28, 29 today for the 200's, so faster than 800 race pace by a little bit. I took 2 minutes-ish rest between all of them, some of it jogging and some walking.