This is the way I look at it -
After the 1968 Olympics, the world records in the 100M & 200M stood at 9.95 & 19.83 seconds respectively. The world record at the 100M now is 9.72sec, which is a 0.23sec improvement since 1968. The 200M record would be expected to improve by ~ 0.46sec, which would translate to an expected WR time of 19.37sec.
Also, the 200M record from '68 might even be considered the weaker of the two records since it was broken first.
Does the GLT in your handle stand for "Gay and Lesbian Times"?
Not all records are/were created equal.
I have to post this again because it is so illustrative.
Let's pretend that all the best performances happen in the same race:
19.32 Michael Johnson USA Atlanta 01.08.1996
19.33
19.34
19.35
19.36
19.37
19.38
19.39
19.40
19.41
19.42
19.43
19.44
19.45
19.46
19.47
19.48
19.49
19.50
19.51
19.52
19.53
19.54
19.55
19.56
19.57
19.58
19.59
19.60
19.61
19.62 Tyson Gay USA Indianapolis 24.06.2007
19.63 Xavier Carter USA Lausanne 11.07.2006
19.64
19.65 Wallace Spearmon USA Daegu 28.09.2006
19.66 Michael Johnson USA Atlanta 23.06.1996
19.67 Usain Bolt JAM 21.08.86 Athínai 13.07.2008
19.68 Frank Fredericks NAM Atlanta 01.08.1996/ Tyson Gay Stuttgart 10.09.2006
19.69
19.70 Tyson Gay USA Lausanne 11.07.2006
As you can see- the pack's a bit behind MJ... no? Incredible. No?
But what is incredible? That MJ is so far ahead, or that the other times are so far behind?
I expect that in the next year or so, times will be posted that will fill in this gap.
glt wrote:
This is the way I look at it -
After the 1968 Olympics, the world records in the 100M & 200M stood at 9.95 & 19.83 seconds respectively. The world record at the 100M now is 9.72sec, which is a 0.23sec improvement since 1968. The 200M record would be expected to improve by ~ 0.46sec, which would translate to an expected WR time of 19.37sec.
Also, the 200M record from '68 might even be considered the weaker of the two records since it was broken first.
How long it takes to brake a record is red herring. When the record gets broken depends a bit on flukey things like when the next great talent comes along. Those 68 records had some major altitude aid.
But lets look at the all time lists. The next fastest 200 time is .3 seconds slower or .15secs for the 100. In the 100 the next slower time is .02s slower and there are 40 performances with in .15. It is much more of an outlier
the record shouda been down in the 19.6s by early '80s if King hadn't stuck his arms up in the air 15m out
see 2nd vid in this compo
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Osc1TZ8-4UI
those were tighter tracks as well & less easy to run a curve compared to recent configs
It is much more of an outlierRight. Which is why when you lay it out physically as I have done, you can see how far the hell out there it is laying. I mean, nobody has run 19.5_ anything yet!
you are my new DEFINITION of mentally retard (Terry Schiavo is off the hook) a gap like that doesnt just happen. Have you ever ran a 200 hundred ~22.3x its pretty balls hard, especially as you try to drop time...
[quote]glt wrote:
But what is incredible? That MJ is so far ahead, or that the other times are so far behind?
What?
I think 19.32 is ridiculous. Could it even have been run without drugs? i think it is questionable. When will a clean athlete run 19.32 again? I wouldnt be surprised if it took 50 years for a clean athlete to do it. Shame we'll never know.
me o my wrote:
I think 19.32 is ridiculous. Could it even have been run without drugs? i think it is questionable. When will a clean athlete run 19.32 again? I wouldnt be surprised if it took 50 years for a clean athlete to do it. Shame we'll never know.
That isn't even something to debate here. The point is that all athletes (including Johnson) have had all of time to run the 200m and look how many people have come close to 19.32?
Look how many even run under 19.90?
So, to answer the QUESTION that is the thread: YES, it is incredible.
did anyone read Slaying the Dragon? imagine if he didnt have his "stutter" step he talked about...19.1 or 19.2 might have been possible, or he was just talking some bull, either way his record is pretty damn impressive!
glt wrote:
This is the way I look at it -
After the 1968 Olympics, the world records in the 100M & 200M stood at 9.95 & 19.83 seconds respectively. The world record at the 100M now is 9.72sec, which is a 0.23sec improvement since 1968. The 200M record would be expected to improve by ~ 0.46sec, which would translate to an expected WR time of 19.37sec.
Also, the 200M record from '68 might even be considered the weaker of the two records since it was broken first.
When MJ did 9.32, what was the 100m WR? I believe the 200m that he did was quite a leap, and still the pack aren't catching up yet in the 200m, while some are beginning to get there in the 100m. You see.
19.32, not 9.32.
I think his stutter helped him in the first 100, for instance in the 45 usual steps (or about there) a 100 is run in, his first 2-3 steps were slow, while the remaining 42 were near maximal velocity.
In addition, MJ's body is just weird. His body is like a giant flexing muscle and maybe he just needed to get the oogly booglies out so he could run the remaining 190 at MaxV. I'm thinking the stutter either helped him accelerate, or allowed him to hold a maxV for the whole 190 or something weird like that.
Either way, as he came into the finish he was pumping and driving so hard to maintain velocity, that his body started coming apart and thats how he had the muscle sprain. I'm of the belief that so far, the human body has a limit in Muscle tension and that passing 9.8/19.6 muscle sprains become common, and at 9.6/19.2 speeds a muscle sprain is almost assured.
Before we all rush too conclusions about how great MJ's 200 is, remember that Carl Lewis in the above race would have been in the low 19.6x's running through the tape. In the 2000 Olympic Trials, if MoGreen and MJ hadn't blown fuses they both would have run under 19.5. So its not like its outside the realm of reality, its just that at those speeds you are gambling with your body, almost betting that your muscles won't fly apart.
northern lights wrote:
did anyone read Slaying the Dragon? imagine if he didnt have his "stutter" step he talked about...19.1 or 19.2 might have been possible, or he was just talking some bull, either way his record is pretty damn impressive!
It's not bull. He tripped coming out of the blocks. Get the youtube and look at the first 2 seconds of the race if they give you a close view. Also, from the same Olympics...see Donovan Bailey getting out of the blocks DFL in the 100m final--and see the same Donovan breaking the WR in that race.
Now think about what this means. The people commenting above about how easy things are in the 200 don't undertand what's been going on in the sprints in the last 10-20 years.
Hint: did MJ break the WR despite the trip or because of it?
Quite possible including 2000 Olympic Trials (MJ and MoGreen don't blow up) and Carl Lewis doesn't get all giggly until after the line.
19.32 Michael Johnson USA Atlanta 01.08.1996
19.33
19.34
19.35
19.36
19.37
19.38
19.39
19.40
19.41
19.42
19.43
19.44
19.45
19.46
19.47 *****(Michael Johnson)*****
19.48
19.49 *****(Maurice Greene)*****
19.50
19.51
19.52
19.53
19.54
19.55
19.56
19.57
19.58
19.59
19.60
19.61 *****(Carl Lewis)*****
19.62 Tyson Gay USA Indianapolis 24.06.2007
19.63 Xavier Carter USA Lausanne 11.07.2006
19.64
19.65 Wallace Spearmon USA Daegu 28.09.2006
19.66 Michael Johnson USA Atlanta 23.06.1996
19.67 Usain Bolt JAM 21.08.86 Athínai 13.07.2008
19.68 Frank Fredericks NAM Atlanta 01.08.1996/ Tyson Gay Stuttgart 10.09.2006
19.69
19.70 Tyson Gay USA Lausanne 11.07.2006
Bolt was lounging around the last 30m of his recent 19.67.
don't forget walter dix at 19.69