Spivey better than Webb

I think they is retired.

noddles wrote:Where is Spivey and Scott when you need them.

noddles wrote:

With Spivey you could always guarantee he would be in either a World Championship or Olympic finals.

Well, except for that time in Indianapolis when he missed the Oly team because he got beat by Jeff Atkinson, Mark Deady and some other scrub whose name I can't even remember.

But seriously, I mostly agree with the OP. Spivey was a brilliant competitor at everything from 1000 to 5000, and a class act as well.

spiveys 13:15(?) to make his last olympic time was pretty amazing given his age. To think goucher and those guys his age are done my be ill advised.

Jim Spivey getting 4th in '88 Olympic Trials and not making the team one year after getting Bronze in the WC's seems awfully similar to what Webb did this year.

And Jeff Atkinson is no Bernard Lagat.

When Spivey did not make the Olympic team he went to Europe and posted a 3:49 mile! I think most athletes would be satisfied with being on 3 Olympic teams. Webb will have to be competing until he is 33 to make 3 Olympic teams. It is conceivable that Webb's one Olympic showing will be his 2004 first round wash out.

I think breaking 13:20 for the the 5000 at 33 is also impressive.

Despite being the 8th fastest miler in history Webb is just too inconsistent to be consider among the 5 best US milers of all time. As it stands now he is not as good as Spivey was. Scott and Ryun are on an entirely different level.

Watch Webb run a 3:45 mile next year and continue with this strange bio-polar career. We could be looking at the most erratic athlete in American history. He ran a 3:46 mile last year and now this............

It is a shame Spivey was paid a school teacher's salary for his exploits. He should be driving a Rolls Royce. I know many .220 hitters in the majors are driving such cars.

If Webb were as fast as Holman we could at least say he is inconsistent. However, Webb is faster than Coe and Scott were, and makes his failure even more inexplicable.

One thing we will all admit Webb is never boring!

Didn't Spivey trip up in the last lap of the trial race? I thought I remember him losing ground.

He made 3 Olympic teams. That is all that needs to be said.

And at Webb's age Spivey had made 1 Olympic team just like Webb.

noddles wrote:

Despite being the 8th fastest miler in history Webb is just too inconsistent to be consider among the 5 best US milers of all time. As it stands now he is not as good as Spivey was. Scott and Ryun are on an entirely different level.

Simple nonsense. The American record holder isn't among the top 5 US milers ever? wtf.

So at IU there was a rumor that Spivey once ran a 4-4:01 mile during a run, but it was never said how far the run was. It was rumored to be on a trail and the first mile of the run. So when Spivey showed up to our practice randomly last season I thought it would be nice to settle the myth...

Basically, he was doing, I can't remember it was probably a 10 miler with the first 1200 on the track with 400's in like 65, 70, and 75 (possibly 60, 65, and 70) and ending the last 1200 in 75, 70, and 65 (possibly 70, 65, and 60). Said his coach was following in the car and yelling out their splits and yelled that he'd run a 4 flat something. Thought it was off but his coach said it was off by no more than 1 second.

He was super nice. What a great fellow.

andre dawson wrote:

spiveys 13:15(?) to make his last olympic time was pretty amazing given his age. To think goucher and those guys his age are done my be ill advised.

IIRC Jim made the team by having the "A" standard in 1996...not 1992. In '92 he won the 1500m OT race.

Check it out...www.jimspivey.com read the links about his 349 effort and his Atlanta qualifier. Tremendous stuff!!

runasics wrote:

Check it out...www.jimspivey.com read the links about his 349 effort and his Atlanta qualifier. Tremendous stuff!!

Great piece.

First - thanks for complimenting a 48 year old runner, who now watches athletes run paces on TV for a mile, that he wonders how he ran that fast.

A few facts: 1996- We all ran slow at the Olympic Trials due to the humidity and heat. I ran 13:58 in the finals for 4th, behind BK and Matt Giusto, and Ronnie Harris. Ronnie and I both went to Europe to get the qualifying standard. Note - my vote would be to let athletes get the A standard after the Trials, as long as Games were 7 weeks away or longer. How could you expect anyone to get an A standard in Atlanta in '96? (check the stats and post it if a male or female, 1500m on up, ran the A standard who did not have it at the Trials in 1996). A standard was 13:29.00. Ronnie ran in Henglo, 13:29.50 (!), and missed by an eyelash. Three days later, I ran 13:24. I remember talking to my coach from my hotel room in Stockholm after the race, 2-time Olympian Mike Durkin after the race, and stating that one has to feel badly for Ronnie. Mike was strong in his reply: "He was beaten by 2 Americans! He should have been racing the other Americans, and not worrying about being a time trialist!"

5 World Championships teams: 1983, semi-final 5k; 1987, 3rd 1500m; 1991, issued a number, but did not start in Tokyo due to injury in the 1500m (ran 3:33, 3:49.82, 3:50 and 3:52 in 108 degree heat in NYC in July - wished I could have stayed healthy); 5th in the 1500m in 1993 Stuttgart, and semi-finals in 1995 5000.

Ran 13:15.86 at age 34, 1994 Berlin. 56 last lap.

1988 - had a stress fracture April 30th, and did not run for 30 days. Race 3:57 early June, and 3:50 at Oslo in July. Was fit, but did not believe in myself. Ran 3:31.01 in Koblenz after the Trials in August.

October 17, 1983 - 2 miles AM w/ roommate Adam Sisson

weight 134.5 10 mile run w/ 1 mile in the middle hard

Long Kinser loop - Ran 6th fastest time for JS that day

Splits: 5:10-5:30-5:21-3:59-4:55-5:27-5:33-5:33-? 51:54

Last 2 miles 10:34, weight 132.5 miles for the day 14.5.

I thought the mile was short, but coach Bell was in the car and said it could only be a second or so off.

The 3/4, 8.5 miles, 3/4 = 10 mile run was on a differnt day: December 14, 1979 (sophomore year). Workout was based on the University of Oregon's 30th street run/drill: Run 3 laps on the track, 60-65-70, then go to the roads for 8.5 miles, and then back to the track for 70-65-60. I ran:

61-2:09(68)-3:21(72), 8.5 miles, and then 3:36 for the last 1200m for 48:29.88 for 10 miles. 18 miles for the day w/ a 3 mile AM run. Only able to sleep 5 hours that Friday night - so shows that I overtrained. Ran 3 miles the next day, and 9 on Sunday. 69 for the week. That was my PR for 10 miles

For Alan, he has many more WC and OG teams that he can make. I would say, that Mike always instilled in me - it was making the final that was important of the WC or OG, not getting there. I would say that he, Ken Popejoy (my other coach) were most proud of the World's in 1993, when I was 3rd at the US champs, than 5th at the Worlds in Germany. We peaked at the right time, and was fit on the day. I took the lead after the 400m to make sure it did not slow like the race did in 1992. I ran the best race I could at age 33.

The goal for AW is not to make Olympic teams. Seb Coe would chime in right now and correct me as well: "Jim, the goal is not to make the finals." Is the goal to make the finals, medal or win? Because that is 3 completely different goals. And when one is achieved, the others are toast.

Thanks for the comments on the web site - I will have to add the 10 mile/1 mile workout next for "workout of the week" page.

js

By the bye - wanted to add:

Took my 3 boys (17, 14, 9) over to Wheaton college to play soccer for 40 mins. Also brought along a pair of ASICS Thunder spikes, with my spike orthotics.

I had been feeling better running of late (20:08 5k two weeks ago), and sprinting for the soccer ball had felt fluid - like the old days. I wanted to show the boys what it looks like to float a fast 400m on the track.

Spiked up, and then tripped and almost fell when I walked in my spikes. What a dork.

Felt pretty good the first 150m, and had a lot of lactic acid around 300m. ran 64.4. Thinking I could have run 2:16 for 800.

Sammy, my 14 year old asked: "Why did you run so fast?" and "you slowed after 200 meters."

Good to be brought back down to earth on Wheaton college campus by your son.

js

First of all, incredibly cool Jim that you give us the download and let us get the facts straight. You should be proud as the best US mile "performer" at Championship meets by a long shot. Scott made finals, but not as many as you and not with a bronze. He had a couple ticks on you for a flat out mile but in theory there are no rabbits and cool Oslo nights for an Olympic or World Final. Not to dis SS -- he is a top 2 guy!

Legat winning was special...we shall see if he can be consistent. My grandparents were immigrants, and I am psyched that he is an American, but it is still a little weird with him changing countries mid career...not in a bad way, just different.

I was one of the original Enclave guys in DC in the early 90s and you were our idol, even in the twilight of a well extended career. Given your input (and the other threads of Canova, etc) I look back and we were doing our tempo runs way too slow (eventhough they hurt), and no one ever knocked out a sub four in the middle. Kenah, Holman, and I would knocked out 6 miles in 5:20 pace at best (granted on a soft surface, not track or roads), and would save the real torture for the cut down 1600,1200, or 1000 repeats. Steve H. would cut down 5x1200s to 303, and Burke (1993 US 1500 champ), Strang (1996 UK Olympian), Sherry, Nohilly, etc we would all trail in at 3:05 - 3:07. That was as hot as it got. One time we did knock out an 8:38 2mile at the end of a saturday workout...that was Gags/Centro giving us a confidence booster.

If I was coaching Alan W (not that anyone asked), I would tell him to go travel for 6 months and make running fun again. I think the people surrounding him are over engineering him, and fueling an already obsessive driven guy to overtrain and become mentally and physically stale. He really doesnt have to change his regiment one bit (he ran 3:46 off of it) But everyone needs variety, working on weaknesses (reacting to pace changes in the final 500m Alan?) Now that i am 39 I can appreciate perspective I wish someone had told me to listen more to how I my body was feeling, and to get more of a sense of self away from the track -- otherwise it is MUCH too much pressure to perform consistantly. The pressure is unbelievable when you:

1. Train all year for one or two 4 minute performances

2. Are paid large amounts by sponsors

3. Are expected by a nation to be the pride of the country.

I remember your reaction after winning the OT in 1992 when you found your coaches -- sheer unmitigated relief. I dont think people realize how tightly wound runners at the elite level usually are.

BTW I have three boys as well 13,11, and 5...the oldest is starting to run and I am having a blast but keeping him from getting into it too fast. Have any of your kids started running or show any interest?

Jim....watching you and guys such as Steve Scott, Atkinson, etc is different than watching Alan Webb because you guys always seemed in control. I don't know if it's confidence, a lack of tactical sense or just his choppy style that emits an aire of tentativeness at all times with Webb.

vote for Steve Scott:

1983 World Championships - "SILVER" medal in the 1500m

American record in both the 1500m and mile

1987 Bronze Medal Pan American Games

1988 Olympic Games - 5th place

1980 Olympic Games - we boycotted

vs. JS:

1987 World Championships - Bronze medal in the 1500m

American record in the 2000m

1987 Silver medal Pan American Games

1984 Olympic Games - 5th place

1992 Olympic Games - 8th place

Medal for medal, and added AR's, you have to give SS the nod. He also was a breath away from the World Record when he ran his 3:47, and has more sub 3:50 performances that me.

Jim Spivey wrote:

vote for Steve Scott:

1983 World Championships - "SILVER" medal in the 1500m

American record in both the 1500m and mile

1987 Bronze Medal Pan American Games

1988 Olympic Games - 5th place

1980 Olympic Games - we boycotted

vs. JS:

1987 World Championships - Bronze medal in the 1500m

American record in the 2000m

1987 Silver medal Pan American Games

1984 Olympic Games - 5th place

1992 Olympic Games - 8th place

Medal for medal, and added AR's, you have to give SS the nod. He also was a breath away from the World Record when he ran his 3:47, and has more sub 3:50 performances that me.

100% class act.