Do gels decrease bodily efficiency for glycogen storage?

Im also interested in what others have to say on this issue

You know they used to barely have water stops, much less gu or gatorade stops in races. Now they have water stops in 5k races.

If you're running a distance/duration for the first time I would suggest planning on taking something (gu/gatorade/anything) mid-way through the run. If not then you may end up crawling the last bit or if you are running a repeating loop you might decide to bag it. This way you get through the entire run "on your feet" the first time through. On further runs of that distance I'd suggest not taking in any fuel during the run itself due to the fact that your body will learn to 1. store glycogen better and 2. use glycogen sparingly.

In a metabolic sense, if you can run the same pace with less glycogen then that will serve you better during the course of a marathon race. Ie: you will finish on your feet instead of your ass.

Alan

So are my premonitions right? You're better off not using gels?

Counter arguments?

There is no "better off". They are reasons and scenerios to do both.

Alan

Once you're past the point of just covering the distance there are going to be times when you want to use gels and times that you don't. At first, the point is just to cover the distance on the long runs and at that point, do whatever you have to do to get through it.

Once you're past that, on regular long runs, you can try and go without any gels. However, on the long runs where you simulate race pace, I'd still suggest taking them. The point there isn't to work on Glycogen stores, it's to work your muscles at race pace while fatiguedd

I have heard and read about glycogen depleting runs in training, too, for the reasons you state.

My personal approach is to take only water during training runs of any length but use hard candy and gu during a marthon along with water. I have found this works great for me. The only caveat I have found is that you have to practice what you will take in during your race at some point if you are new to long distance to make sure your nutrition of choice will go down well.

I'm not new to long runs and intense training--just new to the marathon. I did 4 successful years of collegiate running and did my first half this spring. I feel as though I am being responded to as if I am a Joe Jogger while in actuality I am trying for a 2:35.

Our college program prided ourselves as being blue collar hard working types who weren't gimmicky. I've never even done more than stop at a water fountain during an 18 mile run. Hence my inexperience with gels.

Since you are well trained you body should have about ~90min worth of glycogen stored in your muscles and liver. This means that for any run <90 minutes you *should* have a large enough store of sugar to complete the run.

For any run over this timeframe I do take in gels. Even w/ gels my body is still 'learning' to utilize fat stores, but the extra energy allows me to keep my form and pace, and allows my muscles to work efficiently.

Also, depending on the heat, for any run over an hour I will take in water. For my runs in the 2-3 hour range I take in either an electrolyte mix or a sugar-electrolyte mix (in place of gels). I see no possible benefit of running w/o water for longer runs. If you're not taking it in your body will perform inefficiently.

There are benefits of running w/o gels, and I have done runs upwards of 3 hours w/o them, but I find my body takes way to long to recover from these efforts and with the 2 days of easy running I need after (compared to 1 w/ gels) it is not worth it.

Sorry, but there is no evidence to support depriving yourself of energy during training runs.

The idea that by depriving oneself of fuel that you will store glycogen (please reference the studies if you have them) or spare glycogen. Depriving will certainly increase the reliance on fatty acid oxidation but it will also mean that you have to slow down during the run. Why do you want to slow down?

Depriving your body of fuel will more than likely raise your potential for injury. And it will also negatively effect your overall training. You want to keep your body healthy - that's the main aspect of training. And you do this by fueling your body during long, rigorous segments of training, such as a long run in preparation for a marathon.

I have run 2:13 marathon. Here's is what I did:

Right before I took a Power Gel w/ 2x caffeine. I always had fluids with me, even while warming up. You want your body to feel full. You want to be sluggish the first 6-10 miles. You will need that fuel at 30k, I promise.

At the 5k mark, I took 2 (yes, 2) Power Gels, both with 2x caffeine, and approximately 4 ounces of accerlade. I was full.

At 10k mark, I took another 4 ounces of accerlade. But at that point, I didn't want any more liquids or gels. Yes, I was a little sluggish, but not so much that it affected my pace - just how I felt.

At 15k mark, I missed the fuel station (not my fault), but I was okay because of my previous stations.

At 20k mark, my fluids switched to de-fizzled coke. It is light on your system, and the caffeine boost is important - it also goes down easily. The sugar helps as well.

At 25k mark, I missed. (again, not my fault)

At 30k mark, 4 ounces of coke. (the beverage)

At 35k mark, nothing. (this was a mistake - this was my fault. I ignored the fuel, and by the 40k mark, I was a bit dehydrated)

At 40k mark, I was dizzy, but able to maintain a reasonable pace.

In retrospect, I should have fueled up at 30k with 2 Power Gels. You tend to lose fuel very quickly in the later stages of the marathon.

My general advice - it is better to OVER FUEL than under fuel. Have a large breakfast - pasta, oatmeal, whatever your comfortable with, but make sure you eat quite a lot. And contrary to what runninggart guy said, you need to fuel in the BEGINNING stages of the marathon, not the middle.

Teaching your body how to store more glycogen is probably a good idea. However, once you start racing in the marathon, having enough carbohydrate fuel is very important.

The closer you race to your lactate threshold, the faster you will use your carbohydrate stores. I believe that if you concentrate on workouts to raise your lactate threshold early in the training cycle, then you will use less carbohydrate at marathon race pace (both in training and in competition).

Personally, I have only run one marathon(was attempting 2:40 and ran 3:01 in a pouring rain and headwind, point to point course). My mistake was trying to stay on pace despite the tough conditions. I ended up running my first 10 miles at a pace that was pretty much right at LT, even though it was goal pace, and burning through almost all of my stored glycogen by the 1/2 way point. After that, I could not take in enough carbohydrate to make up for what I was using. I ended up hitting the wall at 23 miles and shuffling the last 3 miles in 30 minutes.

I would say the advice to fuel early in the race is good. I took my first gel at 10k into the race, but it wasn't enough.

Also, you should definately practice taking in fluid and nutrition while running at race pace. I had terrible stomach cramps, starting at 18 miles.

During the race I definitely plan on taking gels and sports drinks. I thank you guys for your experiential stories (jlaa too).

I am still curious whether in practicing for the marathon the gels are necessary. Essentially, is it good to bonk a few times in training that way your body knows what it will experience? It is more likely to bonk on a long run or workout without gels or sports drinks. Essentially, I am afraid that that by giving myself gels I won't be preparing myself for the monster that is the marathon enough.

Alacrity wrote:

During the race I definitely plan on taking gels and sports drinks. I thank you guys for your experiential stories (jlaa too).

I am still curious whether in practicing for the marathon the gels are necessary. Essentially, is it good to bonk a few times in training that way your body knows what it will experience? It is more likely to bonk on a long run or workout without gels or sports drinks. Essentially, I am afraid that that by giving myself gels I won't be preparing myself for the monster that is the marathon enough.

Practice how you will race.

Bonking during training will not help. It neither staves off the point of a future bonk, nor will it preclude a future bonk.

If you bonk in training, it doesn't prepare your body to handle it better when it occurs in a race. You just bonk in a race. Your body will say: "Oh, yea. I bonked." Not: "Oh, yea, how can I handle this better this time...?"

And I wanted to also mention that you should indeed practice with gels. And you should be very specific about which gels you are using, something that your body will handle comfortably. The bottom line is you try to limit the number of problems that you will experience in the actual race/marathon. You have to prepare in training in such a way that your body will not be surprised - naturally, you can't avoid certain issues, like adrenaline, excitement, etc. So you need to use the same fluids and eat the similar foods in preparation, as you would in the actual event.

Hi Alacrity,

I am training for a 2:37 - 2:40 marathon (I've done a 1:14 HM). I am currently running 2 hour long runs and take no water or gels. I have been doing the first hour at easy pace and then speed up gradually. I try to do the last 30 minutes close to target marathon pace. (Six minute miles for me.) I have had no problem with this during my runs: but I make sure I am fully hydrated before I start. (Fortunately I do not run in a very hot climate.) I don't eat anything before these runs either.

I am not too sure about the physiology or anything (so defer to other posters), but would imagine that there is a partial truth in your hypothesis that the body learns to store glycogen more efficiently by doing runs without gels.

I am training for an October marathon and a little later in my training cycle (perhaps when I am up to 2:15 on training long runs, or doing the last hour of a 2:00 run at race pace) I will start using gels. At some stage I am going to have to start having breakfast before my run, so as to simulate race conditions as well as possible.

jlaa wrote:

And I wanted to also mention that you should indeed practice with gels. And you should be very specific about which gels you are using, something that your body will handle comfortably. The bottom line is you try to limit the number of problems that you will experience in the actual race/marathon. You have to prepare in training in such a way that your body will not be surprised - naturally, you can't avoid certain issues, like adrenaline, excitement, etc. So you need to use the same fluids and eat the similar foods in preparation, as you would in the actual event.

Yes. jlaa wrote that he ate a bunch of 2x caffiene gels and felt full early in the race. This would give me the runs something fierce. Many people do not react well to caffeine. Before my first 1/2 marathon, I had a cup of coffee because I had read that caffeine would help me spare glycogen. Fortunately I was able to get off the toilet before the gun went off. I'm a coffee drinker now but not back then. Practice with whatever you will race with.

The reason you take gel or other carbs. during training is to delay depletion - giving you a better quality workout.

I don't think there is any evidence to support an advantage to running on empty during training.

Here is what Owen Anderson has to say about gels:

"...dump a load of goo into your stomach along with a little liquid, it's hard to know what the actual CONCENTRATION of that carbohydrate will be. That concern is not an esoteric one: if the carbo concentration is too high (too much goo, not enough liquid), the carbohydrate will be absorbed slowly and may even pull fluid into your gut - lowering your blood volume and dehydrating you in the process. If the carbo levels are too low (too little goo, too much water), not enough carbs will get to your muscles, and you'll limp through the final miles of the marathon with sad, glycogen-depleted legs. The commercial sports drinks are formulated just right, I always say, so why not just use them ..."

If you use gel, remember they are very concentrated. Crank Sports, maker of e-Gel, recommends 14 oz of water between each one. You'll start the race with water in your system, but that will need to be replaced throughout the race. Each gel has roughly 100 calories, so if you take 1 gel per hour, you should maintain a drinking rate of 7 oz plain water every 30 minutes. You'll still be at least 100 calories short, so take some sports drink along the way to make up the difference. This is something you'll have to experiment with. I recently took about 6 gels during the Vancouver Marathon over 3 hours with no problem, and I know that I was not drinking 28 oz each hour. I've also carried gels on training runs and not had any trouble.