New Study Says Weight Training Makes Us Faster (True or Not??)

seemed to help me.

but at my school apparently they stopped putting weight programs together for runners because a certain runner (who everyone on the boards here would know) told them to piss off a year or so before i got there!

It also works for me. I try to do squats and upper body stuff 2-3 times a week. I don't do heavy squats (many repetitions vs. max 4 in the study), but it gives me the strength to run longer on tempo runs, etc. I can feel the difference when I haven't lifted in a week.

I'm not sure what the answer is to your question, BUT, this study identified the partcipants as well trained but we don't know what that exactly means.

If a program includes speed work, hill running, intervals, and drills - would the squats be such a differentiating factor? If someone is just running slowly every day and then adds squats for leg strength, then I see the basis of a speed up.

I trained one guy who was a very gifted runner - sub 13:20, sub 27:40 for 5k and 10k - and one summer he diligently added in weights for lower body. He said that it gave him nothing extra at all. Mind you, this guy trained hard with a variety of paces and was in phenomenal shape before lifting.

Personally, I think lifting is a plus, as long as you don't get hurt along the way and as long as you don't let it detract from your running program.

It's absolutely true. Heavy weight training impoves running economy. The reason, I suspect, that college programs haven't caught on yet, is because most runners and coaches simply don't know how to lift correctly. Most are still suck on high-rep, light resistance circuit-type programs. Then you had ignorant gurus like Arthur Lydiard basically claiming that weight training is useless, and none of the current mainstream running physiologists have really given the subject much attention. Most of the work on this subject has come from people outside of the running community and it still hasn't caught on, sadly.

This study being referred to did show a 5% improvement in running economy among the group they studied. They may have been "well trained" but certainly not elite (as I remember the average 5k time of this group was about 19 minutes). A 5% improvement in running economy would be about 5 minutes in a marathon and it is hard to imagine getting a 2:01 out of a 2:06 marathoner with 8 weeks of half squats. I do believe the benefits are real, however and as others have indicated, part of the problem may be nt knowing how to perform the weight training properly, or that runners believe the things they already do take care of the needs adequately. Education is a never ending process, but it also has to be properly interpreted and utilized.

I read the study and the times were in the 17 to 19 range; Vo2max of ~58 (that is from memory).

The key is there is a mounting body of evidence that specific types of strength training or power development (thus plyometrics) may be beneficial. As someone else noted, problems include (potentially):

Studies not using appropriate activities

Coaches/athletes trying to figure how to incorporate more activity in the training schedule. The beauty of the above study is that the session probably did not take much time. Also note it was a pretty intense lift (the maximal amount that could be done 4x is not light weight lifting). An issue for a college runner is that one runs, goes to class, studies, sleeps, eats. Fitting in another 30 to 45 minutes might be tough in terms of increasing the total training load and also in reducing the recovery/regeneration time.

As for Jack's notes, I think a few things:

1) As one approaches the upper limits of performance the gains are probably going to be less

2) I am not sure one can automatically extrapolate out the improvement in RE in a linear fashion. Could it be a curvilinear function?

3) I would add that Deena Kastor did a pretty aggressive plyometric and explosive lifting routine during her pre-Athens training. She went away from it, but I think has gone back to it.

Jack, did she make any mention of this at the Marathon team summit in COS a few weeks ago?

I make this point a lot: ONE single study, especially involving a small group, should be considered within the scope of the literature.

As for Lydiard being an "ignoramus" well I agree he was wrong on a few things, but he did incorporate bounding into his regimen according to some of his writings. Bounding is plyometrics. So while he may have been against traditional strength training, he certainly advocated what the studies are finding--explosive exercises that develop power may be good for a runner.

So, I guess I will head to the weight room in a few weeks for my session of half-squats...

I do not know a lot about the subject, but one of my coaches really believes lifting helps but another one says it is completely useless for a runner, but notes that is it because some runners let it detract from running. Most Africans don't lift unless their coach is European. Jason Karp among others has written several articles showing lifting may be detrimental. For one thing it increases muscle fiber density.

New Study?

There have been studies linking Weight Training and/or Plyometrics to improvements in running economy and Vo2max since at least the mid-90s. Distance runners have been the last athletes to finally jump aboard the "resistance training bus". Baseball players and other "athletes" back in the 50s also stayed away from resistance training because they feared the "weight gain" and "lack of flexibility". Eventually resistance training has become a key part of any athlete's training regime.

Of course the more fit you are the less improvement you will see, but that will hold true for ANY training be it running miles, intervals, or anything else.

You also have to have balance in training. If resistance training impedes your running then you should back off. If you barely have time to run then how are you going to have time to strength train?

1. Treat strength training as a workout...especially if you lift with your legs, which you should be.

2. Strength training, like your other training, should follow a progressive pattern. Example: train at 15-20 reps during the summer/winter base, 2-3 days a week. Train at 8-12 reps, 1-2 days a week during your initial quality training (train on same days as your hard workout, but lift AFTERWARDS, preferably HOURS afterwards, say after your secondary run). Train at 4-8 reps 1 time a week during peak phase, then tailor off to nothing the last 1-2 weeks.

3. Train for power and specificity. Include power exercises and transition into exercises that mimic specific running movements

4. Go to an expert if you can. You wouldn't ask your weight lifting coach to give you running workouts, and you wouldn't ask your running coach to give you lifting workouts (UNLESS he has been trained in this area...preferably NSCA trained or at least "schooled" in the subject matter.)

Example exercise progression:

Exercise Group 1:

Bench Press

Dumbbell Squat

Seated Row

Dumbbell Lunge

Front Raise or Lateral Raise

Leg Curl

Straight Arm Pulldown

Exercise Group 2:

Dumbbell Bench Press

Squat

Dumbbell Row

Step Up

Shoulder Press

RDL

Lat Pulldown

Exercise Group 3:

Plyo Exercise (box jumps, split jumps, etc)

Power Exercise (Power Clean, Jump Squat, Push Press, Dumbell variations, etc...www.crossfit.com...good video demonstrations)

Exercises combining specificity of various limbs:

1. Single arm cable row with hip extension

2. Step up with hip extension

3. Eccentric calf raise with knee extension (ie: bent knee calf raise then extending upward)

Alan

For one thing it increases muscle fiber density.

You sure about that?

The study actually found no correlation between strength gain and improvement in running economy.

Since the protocol involved an incline, the strength gains might likely be beneficial for performance but not necessarily due to economy.

Technically, if you increase the nonoxidative resources, you could also see a reduction in the V02 cost of exercise. That is, the same effect found here could be achieved with some creatine loading, or an interval hill workout added into the mix.

The other thing to remember here is that further strength gains would be adding mass, whereas early strength gains are primarily neurological. I have to get going, so not much time to explain some of the weaknesses in the traditional running economy argument, but I encourage you to keep questioning the paradigms.

"You also have to have balance in training. If resistance training impedes your running then you should back off. If you barely have time to run then how are you going to have time to strength train?"

I think this is the #1 problem facing any post collegiate runner and the reason most runners do not include lifting in their schedules.

Sure if you are in school you have time to fit in a few lifting sessions per week. However, when you are forced to chose between running and lifting, that's where the rub takes place.

If you are running 50 mpw, would you do better to drop to 40 or 45 if that means getting in a lifting day? Would you even benefit from 1 day per week of lifting?

dsrunner wrote:

The other thing to remember here is that further strength gains would be adding mass, whereas early strength gains are primarily neurological. I have to get going, so not much time to explain some of the weaknesses in the traditional running economy argument, but I encourage you to keep questioning the paradigms.

"early strength gains" can go far though. I gained over 100 pounds on my bench and squat maxes each and didn't gain a pound.

It's been discussed before a bit in this earlier thread if you would like to see that also:

http://www.letsrun.com/forum/flat_read.php?board=1&id=2480667&thread=2480667

yep well wrote:

"early strength gains" can go far though. I gained over 100 pounds on my bench and squat maxes each and didn't gain a pound.

I call bullsh#t.

If we did everything that "scientific studies" suggested, we'd be stuffed to our gills with suppliments, wearing ballet slippers for trainers, doing hours of lifting and plyometrics every day, and running 30 miles a week!

BoyGeorge wrote:

yep well wrote:

"early strength gains" can go far though. I gained over 100 pounds on my bench and squat maxes each and didn't gain a pound.

I call bullsh#t.

nope, i'm being honest. My abilities pale in comparison to professional powerlifters though. Some of those guys can bench over 400 lbs while weighing only 130 lbs themselves. There's definately room for improvement for us runners that have ratios no where near that.

yep well wrote:

BoyGeorge wrote:

I call bullsh#t.

nope, i'm being honest. My abilities pale in comparison to professional powerlifters though. Some of those guys can bench over 400 lbs while weighing only 130 lbs themselves. There's definately room for improvement for us runners that have ratios no where near that.

more importantly though, how did the 100 lb gain in strength benefit your running?

mlbfan24 wrote:

more importantly though, how did the 100 lb gain in strength benefit your running?

well

i stopped getting my regular aches and pains

i'm a whole heck of a faster as far as top speed goes (surges, and accelerations too)

and i feel like it takes a lot less energy to run. i don't know how to explain this one)

quit trying to deny the obvious guys. Bekele lifts weights, Geb lifts weights, Songok and Choge lifts weights, every kenyan ive met in my career at one point or another lifts weights during off-season or in-season. it builds up muscle strength allowing you to train harder and longer while avoiding injury (if DONE RIGHT). thats just the simple explanation and id go more in depth (i have a physiology degree) but apparently everybody in Letsrun knows what there talking about and runs 14:30 for the 5k.