5k Improvement over a year

I ran a 17:30 last year am and looking to go low 15/sub 15 this year. Is it possible. Yes. But I may be a freak.

At your early stage of development, it is not uncommon to improve more than a minute per year in the 5k. Once you are at really high levels (say 15 minutes or faster for the 5k), then improvements tend to come much slower. I don't think you need to do up to 90 miles per week, though, as you suggested. I think an hour of running per day in high school is good enough to have sustained progress. Learn to run your mileage effectively. Do two or three tempo runs per week in the off-season and you won't have to crank 90 miles per week. Besides, I really don't think you know how much time and energy it takes to run 90 miles per week. Look at it this way, Galen Rupp, the top high school runner in the country who lives in Portland, OR runs just 65 miles per week. He runs a mixture of tempo runs, long intervals, fartleks, races, and easy-steady runs. I think you should makes the most of modest mileage at your age.

Tinman, could you lay out a schedule for a 60mile/week runner in H.S?? 6 days a week or 7? I've read your posts before and you seem to be very knowledgable

He runs so fast on 65 mpw because he has amazing talent. I'm not blessed with such natural born talent so I have to work 10X harder and that is why I want to do 90 mpw. During the summer I did about 60mpw and I only ran 17:52, whereas Galen Rupp is running under 15. See what I mean?

Hey man if you can stay healthy and train well you should be able to run low 16's or even break 16. But my edvice to you is not to go crazy with the mileage keep it easy for now. It takes awhile to develop tolerance for 70-90miles a week. If you were only running 20 you shouldnt go any higher than 45-50. If you run that you will feel a lot more fresh than running 70miles. Just take it one step at a time and dont rush things.

I've already been up around 70 during the summer but dropped way down during XC. I had no problem doing 70... it was more tough mentally than physically. My body handles the mileage very well.

i went from 20:45 to 19:20 in about 54 weeks..i'm a girl.

Hichy wrote:

He runs so fast on 65 mpw because he has amazing talent. I'm not blessed with such natural born talent so I have to work 10X harder and that is why I want to do 90 mpw. During the summer I did about 60mpw and I only ran 17:52, whereas Galen Rupp is running under 15. See what I mean?

However, I doubt that he is running these miles at a slow pace. If your easy runs are at 8:00 pace versus his at 6:30 pace, your 65 miles don't compare to his.

Please note though, I am by no means advocating running your miles faster. Just adding fuel to the fire.

Me:

9th - 19:09

10th- 16:40

11th- 15:47

All XC times. I ran not much before 9th, 60 mpw before 10th, and 70-80 before 11th.

Heed the advice of the people above, don't go crazy with miles. 65 was good last year. 75 should be good next summer. 90 mpw is pretty stiff, and probably wouldn't do much more good than 75. The potential to wear yourself out or get an injury. The best thing is doing the miles THE WHOLE OFF SEASON. Not just ramping up when the season rolls around.

Go easy on the hard workouts too. Plenty of time for those during the season.

If you want a great book that lays training out logically, I recommend "Run with the Best" by Tony Benson.

Who?? ....response to your request that I lay out a schedule that has 60 miles per week included 6-7 days of training per week.

Alright, I am going to give you a schedule to run from here until track season that is simple. It is a generic base cycle which fits your request. You can be very successful as a high school runner on a consistent program of 60 miles per week, by the way. The design was to avoid monotony of pace which is a killer of progress, yet not hit you with stunting lactic acid workouts. It is important to be consistent. If the schedule is to much for you, back it off a bit. Good luck. Tinman

DP= Distance Pace....5k pace divided by .75

ST= Short Tempo Run - 20 minutes at 5k pace divided by .93

MT= Medium Tempo Run -40 minutes at 5k pace divided by .90

LT= Long Tempo Run - 60 minutes at 5k pace divided by .97

Striders = easy speed runs of 100m at current mile race pace

Surges = controlled pickups of 1-5 surges at 5k race pace

------------------------------------

M: 8 miles DP

T: 12 miles (middle 20 minutes at ST pace) do also

4 x 100m striders with 100m jogs to the start

W: 8 miles DP

TH: 12 miles with 8 x 1 minute surges with 4 minutes of

DP between. This is not speed training, so don't go

crazy and hammer.

F: 8 miles DP

S: 12 miles with either MT or LT in the middle. Do also

4 x 100m striders, jog back for recovery

SU: off ...I recommend doing a long walk in the evening.

Tinman,

I'm guessing that you meant that LT was supposed to be 5k pace/.87?

Actually, my LT mean Long Tempo, not Lactate Threshold. Lactate threshold pace is 5k pace divided by .93 for most male runners and slightly higher for female long distance runners. The .87 referred to is the long tempo pace which correlates to marathon race pace. .87 is a pace which does aid in stamina development. Many European coaches and physiologists use the range 80-90% of vVO2 max to train to train distance runners. Renato Canova, contributor on letsrun.com, Italian coach, will tell you that lactate threshold and race endurance (that which I call stamina) are improved on paces from just below marathon race pace (about 3% slower than marathon race pace) up to actual theoretical threshold pace which is the best pace you can run for an hour race. So, the range that I suggest for continued stamina and lactate threshold development ranges from .87 to .93 of 5k race pace, meaning from marathon race pace at .87 to half-marthon race pace at .90 to one-hour lactate threshold breakpoint pace at .93. For women marathoners, the variables may be up to .03 higher since power production contributes less to their 5k performance than most males. If you look at my other thread, you will understand a bit more of the discussion about what paces to use and for how long. In a nutshell, tempo runs in my schema of training vary from shorter, faster ones to longer, moderate paced ones. Thanks for the question, miler.

Another miler:

The thread that I contributed to was entitled Threshld running vs speed by ab.

Tinman,

Sorry, I meant to write 5k pace * .87. In the thread you were giving the original poster about training guidelines, you said LT should be 5k * .97

That's all.

Thanks for the info!

*edit- change all of those "*" to "/". I'm not thinking tonight...

Tinman, can I reach my goals using that 60 mpw program you set out for me? I don't have much talent at all... I mean after all I've only run 17:52 after a pretty good summer base of 650 miles. It seems like I need to offset my lack of talent with extra work.

I agree with the comments before. I started XC running well above 21 minutes. Next year, 18:38 and this year's PR 17:17. I never had much talent, compared to my teammates i had to work much harder. However, 90 mpw seems a bit excessive, cut down and emphasize quality.

my high school xc performances on my championship course (2.95mi):

FR: NT (did not run)

SO: 20:07

JR: 17:41

SR: 16:10

My annual mileage totals for those years

(Jan to Jan.) FR to SO: 1000mi (20mi/wk)

SO to JR: 2350mi (47mpw)

JR to SR 2850mi (58mpw)

remember these are annual totals. summer and winter of senior year i was averaging 70-85 (xc season and most of track 60-75)

oh, in all of high school my total mileage done at quality was proably 12%.

much more and i probably would have gotten fried.