Summer at Altitude

i don't really know a whole lot about the biology of this sort of thing, but here is my guess: in your initial return from altitude, you will be able to workout at a much higher level than before for a period of time. regardless of how long this period lasts (i would guess it would last fairly long if you intend to spend 3 months at altitude), by capitalizing on your improved fitness early in the season, you will be stronger at both the end of the season and in the long term (indoors, outdoors, the rest of your life). my feeling is that it's all about making little jumps to higher levels, building on foundations and so forth.

just my .02

Yes. The time course varies but 4 weeks seems to be the longest for most people.

You still need a good training plan. Head down from Flagstaff to Sedonia or Phoenix for some higher intensity training if you can.

A plan that might work is to focus on running a lot of aerobic miles (keeping some intensity). Then maintain the high volume (maybe not as high) once you return.

Once again I recommend Altitude Training and Athletic Performance by Randy Wilber.

People think going to altitude is a panacea; what they forget is to train and recover properly and that for every winner of a race who went to altitude there are scores of people behind them who went and yet lost.

My wife went to altitude (Kenya) from July 11 - Sept 26, 2007 - the first extended time she'd spent at altitude since leaving there in 2000.

She began training on August 4 (She had taken off since July 5) and did 7 weeks of basically base type training, mixing in one fartlek run and one track session per 10 days during the last 30 days.

She returned to the US and ran her first race on Sept. 29, and PR'd for 10k with 33:25 (20 seconds better than her previous PR).

Here's how her fitness held up over the following months:

9/29 - 10k, 33:25 (PR)

10/6 - 5k, 16:15 (Previous best on that course was 16:40)

10/13 - 21k, 1:19 (Won by 7 minutes)

10/20 - 10k, 32:56 (PR)

10/27 - Track Mile, 4:57

10/28 - AM, 5k - 17:08, PM, 5k - 16:50

11/3 - 10k, 33:42 (Won by 1 minute)

11/15 - Solo Workout, 4x1600m w/ 400 jog recovery, 5:05, 5:05, 5:04, 5:00

11/25 - 10k, 32:31 (PR - beat a loaded Intl. field)

12/1 - 10k, 34:08 (1st - 85 deg F & high humidity)

12/2 - 21k, 1:17, (1st - 11 hours after the 10k)

12/8 - 42k, 2:48:51 (PR)

1/5 - 42k, 2:48:37 (PR)

1/19 - 10k, 34:33 (2nd - tough course & high winds)

1/20 - 21k, 1:18 (1st)

2/2 - 10k, 34:21 (3rd, beat several 32:30 women, hot & brutal winds)

2/9 - 21k, 1:17 (won by 3 minutes)

2/16 - 21k, 1:20 (won by 3 minutes)

2/23 - 10k, 33:38 (1st)

3/1 - 21k, 2:37:26 (11 minute PR!)

As you can see, the benefit she gained lasted for a while. I don't recommend the racing schedule if you want to walk later in life, but the benefit from altitude was tremendous for her. Not everyone will respond like she did, but even I, Mr. Lazy, saw my resting HR get back down to my sea level norm after about 60 days at 6000+ ft. When I came back to sea level after 6 months, my HR was a good 10 beats lower than when I left.

Some of the things she thinks helped.

1. Take it easy at first - don't be in a hurry to start "training at altitude." Your body will be adapting whether you train or not, so let it have a little head start by running easy, less, or not at all for the first couple of weeks.

2. Eat well. Your body needs help adapting to the new air - give it. Might want to add a multivitamin if you're not using one, and make sure that you're eating the right stuff and plenty of it.

3. Run by time & effort, not by mileage. When you do want to run a specific distance, start your watch when you're leaving the house, then leave it behind. Stop it when you get home, don't worry with the pace during your run - let your body, not your watch dictate speed.

4. Hydrate. A lot.

5. Start short and slow with your workouts. She started w/ 600's at 5k pace, then 800's, and finally 1600's over a 30 day period.

6. When you return to sea level, maintain the running times of your workouts - don't be tempted to shorten your running times now that you're a little faster, instead run a little farther. This seems to be a major mistake people make when they do the "summer at altitude," and as a result they lose fitness before the important XC meets roll around.

Anyway, that's one person's experience, but maybe something in there will help.

I've spent time out at altitude and I just want to warn you that you will not see an amazing jump in fitness just because of time spent at altitude. Yes, your workouts will improve upon return (probably for 6-8 weeks) but NO you will not automatically become an all-american. Look at it like this, the environment in flagstaff is very condusive to high quality training and gives you an opportunity to do what you love in one of the running mecca's. So enjoy your time there, take workouts a little easier out there especially in the beginning and realize you are there to get in healthy training....not to turn into an olympian quickly

What about if you're up at around 9000 feet?

I don't think there are any places to train low for me- so should I just be looking for a very aerobic based summer?

altitude running wrote:

NO you will not automatically become an all-american. realize you are there to get in healthy training....not to turn into an olympian quickly

Thanks.

I'm ok with that, I don't want to be an all-american, just see improvement from it. As long as it seems likely that I will improve from it and that it won't fade too rapidly, then I'm down to try it.

Thanks for the help everyone.

Did your wife change her training from previous cycles at non-altitude (ie mileage, intensity)??

Not significantly. She probably stretched her "base" phase by a couple of weeks - in the US she might have been racing by mid-Sept, but for everything else she did basically the same as before.

Your wife ran 3 marathons in the course of 4 months, with 3 half marathons and 2 10K's in-between? She doesn't sound like one of the smartest trainers in the sport.

I think that it is important to realize that you are not gaining fitness by training at altitude per se. You are gaining more hemoglobin and the ability to use oxygen more efficiently when you come down to sea level. So that first XC race when you come through the mile at 4:50 to you will feel like a 5:10 pace.

I spent summers in CO while racing in college and made several mistakes in training and estimating my fitness while at altitude. It takes several weeks simply to adjust to the altitude and change in humidity. If you are coming from a humid sea level environment you will get nose bleeds at night, want to sleep a lot, lose weight easily because your body is working harder. I often times developed a cold or mild bronchitis symptoms after training for two weeks at 6000ft.

So adjust slowly and run very slowly at first. Altitude means hills and downhills which can tear up your legs. So, if you're not used to it stay on flat roads for awhile (Buffalo Park in Flag).

The best XC seasons I had were when I went to altitude and got my mileage up and simply did base mileage. Maybe a tempo run or two, but no "real" workouts i.e., mile repeats, track work, or hills until I returned to my college town. My aerobic system got very efficient and my threshold was higher because of this huge aerobic base at altitude. I also didn't race at all during these summers and rode my bike to work at altitude as well. Cross season is long and its important to peak in November instead of pre nats.

The worst seasons I had were when I worked out like I was in season at altitude hammering long runs, hills, and tempos to get in shape. This usually occured with several other "pros" who were getting ready for September marathons and various summer road races. During these summers I always peaked in late September and then crashed the rest of the season ending up tired and usually injured.

I didn't feel like the effects of training at altitude (higher hemoglobin, more red blood cells) lasted more than a month and a half once I returned to sea level. The fitness you gain will last until track season if you stay uninjured and don't break down but your hemoglobin levels will return to normal. The body compensates quickly. I also seemed to gain weight quickly (usually around 5-7 lbs.) once I returned to sea level. Chalk it up to bad college nutrition, beer drinking, or not being at altitude but my metabolism slowed down and I put on weight.

Do lots of < 100m strides.

Do gentle declining (not quite "downhill") runs.

Do some runs on a treadmill.

Run on the flats as much as possible.

If you have access to a track alternate 100m fast, and 100m slow. Or do 200m runs with 100m walk recovery, etc.

Get in a big aerobic base.

Probably not, but considering she PR'd in virtually every race, I wouldn't say it was the dumbest thing either. During that time her only losses came in 10k's, and she lost only to women whose PR's were sub-32:00.

Go back and look at the kind of schedules that guys like Rodgers, DeCastella, Jones and Shorter ran - you'll see that hers wasn't radically different from some of theirs.

For her a 2:48 marathon is basically a faster long run with prize money. The half marathons were basically 13 miles at marathon pace (a very common workout). The 10k's, OK, those were fast, but that's how you get down to a 2:37. It's not the program I'd recommend for everyone, but she pulled it off and had fun in the process. It worked well for her, but she's probably the exception - again, the question was about how long fitness gained at altitude lasts, and that's what it did for her.

former altitude runner wrote:

The fitness you gain will last until track season if you stay uninjured and don't break down but your hemoglobin levels will return to normal. The body compensates quickly.

Can you explain more about this please? What sort of fitness do you mean will last till track if your body quickly responds to sea level air and hemoglobin levels drop?

Thanks for all your input, it's been very helpful.

So if one is planning on running a fall marathon and is going to be at altitude through the end of August, would it be more beneficial to just get in a strong aerobic base and maybe an occasional tempo run rather than weekly tempos/MP workouts? Is 2 months (upon return to sea level) enough to get the necessary workouts in if one has just done mostly basework all summer? Not trying to steal the thread, but I am interested in what to expect as well, although I will be aiming to peak for a fall marathon rather than XC, but around the same time.

I should add that I will be heading to altitude next week.

Altitude Dude....where are you going to be living? I will be heading to Flagstaff as well next week for the enitre summer. If you would like to trade contact info to possibly do some training together as we both adjust to altitude post your email or other contact info.

Hey, I'm going to be in Albuquerque, sorry.

Oh ok man.

To the OP (and anyone else that's going to be in Flagstaff for the summer) I will be there all summer starting next week. I will be taking the first week off from running but if anyone wants to get together and suffer adjusting to altitude together just contact me. I'm a 21 year old college student.

woodsrunner45@gmail.com