Frank Shorter - Best US Distance Runner of All Time?

thats backwards. He won the gold in 72 and the silver in 76. and his 5th in the 10,000 was in 72 as well.

nitpicker wrote:

thats backwards. He won the gold in 72 and the silver in 76. and his 5th in the 10,000 was in 72 as well.

You are correct, my mistake.

Not only "best" but I'd add along with Joan Samuelson, "most important" in terms of the evolution of the sport that is the reason we run today.

Wow, when it's all laid out like that, it's very impressive. What's even better is that he's a great, laid-back guy. I've met him several times at Falmouth and he's always taken the time to chat and take pictures.

This has been debated before, and yes, Shorter usually wins. Resume speaks for itself, there's not much more to say.

hempy wrote:

Not only "best" but I'd add along with Joan Samuelson, "most important" in terms of the evolution of the sport that is the reason we run today.

No question Frank was the KEY player in ushering competitive distance running into the US mindset, but, to say he's the best ever is quite a stretch. Sure, he garnered many coveted accolades, but he was competing against much narrower competition. The Africans had hardly emerged in that era and if Frank were racing at his very best today, I seriously doubt he medals or is even in contention in any of those championship-type races.

Personally, while he never medalled, I would argue that Craig Virgin may have been the very best. The only American ever to win the most difficult event in distance running in world cross and a guy who made three Olympic teams as global competition was becoming much stiffer than in Shorter's era. Plus, stories like the one about him almost lapping the filed and running 27:41 or so on a "melting" track is just ridiculous. How much faster would the guy have gone BACK THEN in more palatable conditions? Virgin's definitely not a household name, but he may have been the most talented athlete ever, and it showed in high school. I'll bet that he put in fewer miles to get that 8:40 deuce in brutal heat than anyone else that has approached that time in even normal conditions.

Shorter was probably the best male American distance runner ever, however, the best of all time is probably Mary Decker.

Not to downplay Frank's accomplishments, as I admire guys who run to win even more than record setters but, did Shorter ever set an NCAA, American, or World record in any event?

Sagarin wrote:

No question Frank was the KEY player in ushering competitive distance running into the US mindset, but, to say he's the best ever is quite a stretch. Sure, he garnered many coveted accolades, but he was competing against much narrower competition. The Africans had hardly emerged in that era and if Frank were racing at his very best today, I seriously doubt he medals or is even in contention in any of those championship-type races.

I agree that Shorter competed against inferior competition worldwise, but '72 and '76 is almost the modern era. Besides, if we use that logic to discredit him, who are we left with? Steve Scott, Bob Kennedy?

A good question would be - what's worth more, Shorter's gold from '72, or Meb's silver from '04?

Sagarin wrote:

The Africans had hardly emerged in that era and if Frank were racing at his very best today, I seriously doubt he medals or is even in contention in any of those championship-type races.

An East African had won the last three Olympic marathons before Shorter outran the defending champion for the 1972 Olympic title.

So?

Sagarin wrote:

Personally, while he never medalled, I would argue that Craig Virgin may have been the very best.

Oh come on. You can't minimize Shorter's accomplishments based on era, then accept Virgin's. Shorter won an Olympic silver in '76, while Virgin's best years were '80 and '81.

Who's minimizing Shorter's accomplishments? They are what they are. I didn't say the Africans hadn't emerged at all, only that they had "hardly" emerged in Shorter's era. What Shorter did was awesome, but there is nothing harder to win than World Cross, and, yes, the competition even in 80 and 81 was better than it was in 72, much better. That's why no American that is not of direct African descent can even get in the top ten anymore. A win in world cross > an Olympic medal in my opinion. All the specialists from different events descend upon world cross.

And before someone chimes in about how competition even in Virgin's era was not nearly what it is today, you are preaching to the choir. The point is, it is "relative," and the international competition was relatively greater in Virgin's era than in Frank's. Of course, all of this conjecture is simply a matter of opinion. I would agree that Shorter was more important for advancing the sport in the US than anyone else and he is a heck of a nice guy to boot. Thank Frank.

where are his times?

who cares about Falmouth Jim Sullivan award.

Cant base it off the stuff you posted

MTH wrote:

And I am sure I'm missing other but based on the above I answer a resounding - Yes, Frank Shorter is the best US distance runner in history.

Based on the above I answer a resounding, "Why does anyone care?".

He was a great great runner! What else needs to be said? What difference does it make if one person says he's the best and another does not? Does it remove any of his accomplishments? No. Does it give him any new ones? No.

Does it start stupid internet arguments that in the end are completely meaningless? Yes. Ah, now I see the point.

Some people just have way too much free time.

MTH wrote:

Is Frank Shorter the best U.S. Distance runner of all time?

Accomplishments:

Track:

5th Olympic 10,000 (1976)

Marathon:

Olympic Gold Medal 1976

Olympic Silver Medal 1972

Fukuoka Marathon Champion 4 straight years (1971-1974)

If your opinion is that a win at world cross means more than an Olympic medal, then your opinion isn't worth much.

and all this time, i thought it was Pre!

cool to see his performances laid out like that.