Question for RunningArt (Alan) and the rest of you.

Marathon % can be as high at 92% depending on fitness.

I would tend to focus on comfort, paying attention to both pace and heart rate. I don't think you should push your heart rate so high just to maintain a certain pace. That is almost certain bonking.

Try to find a happy medium. You'll know when you run if the pace is doable for a long, long time. Make sure you practice this by doing long runs with long marathon pace incorporated.

Remember, weather and terrain will affect your pace and heart rate, so go on feel.

Bottom line, focus on comfort and monitoring your heart rate. I would tend to suggest set your heart rate range and try to keep in that range until the last 10K, then you can let loose and hang on.

Good luck!

I would suggest that 80-85% should be a guide for long hard runs (marathon tempo runs) 12-20 miles, starting at the lower figure. 85-90 for medium length hard runs 5-10 miles.

Above 90% for interval training.

Below 80% for general mileage. Below 70% for easy runs.

I've done 5 marathons in the past year and half. I actually ran the pace you mentioned at Boston (6:25's)in my 2nd one.

My usualy week consisted of

1 long run at a solid pace that I could feel comfortable with for the majority of the run. Sure on the 18+ days I would be tired at the end, but the majority of the run I felt smooth and in control. (I would usually try and run my desired marathon pace for as long as I could).

1 workout that made me push myself. 6 X Mile repeats @ 5:15-20, 10-15 fartlecks, 3:00 intervals with a nasty hill in the middle, out & back faster (way back try to make the course uphill), in & outs, etc...

the rest I would fill with varying BPMs and easy days depending on how I felt. My BPMs were at a level where I could talk to someone but not at full length, easy days I could sing a song while running.

Every week I would increase my long run and difficulty of the the workout slightly as to avoid just jumping into long runs I wasnt ready to handle or workouts that left me too tired to run effectivly.

I'm not what you would call a really 'good' runner, but all of my marathons have been under 3 hours so I'm not horrible either. I'm sure you can get some better advice, but I thought I'd share my 2 cents.

wellnow wrote:

I would suggest that 80-85% should be a guide for long hard runs (marathon tempo runs) 12-20 miles, starting at the lower figure. 85-90 for medium length hard runs 5-10 miles.

Above 90% for interval training.

Below 80% for general mileage. Below 70% for easy runs.

Wow, I have been way off on my training. I am doomed!!!

I have been trying to keep HR near 88% for long runs (16-20 miles) with marathon pace of up to 10 miles in length.

Burger, thank you for your input. Every little bit helps.

After looking at what you do your mile repeats in, I think I may be off with my goal race pace. I try to keep my mile repeats between 5:35-5:40.

Thanks again!

I almost threw up my lunch while reading this. You are actually asking Alan for advice????

You deserve whatever answer he gives you!

Burger wrote:

6 X Mile repeats @ 5:15-20

Please say rest between these. Taking 1:00 (preferable for marathon training) is very different than taking 4:00 and it can distort your workout.

thats not a bad pace for the mile repeats. if you can do 6 at 5:35s you could probably pull off 6:25s - 6:35s. My 1st mile repeats sess I did 3 at 5:55s and I was gasping for air. hahahaa. I was able to do 6 @ 5:18 average 3 weeks prior to the race. (dont know if it was the best workout for the time but it gave me an idea of how good of shape I was in). Just make sure your hard days are hard, your long days honest, and your easy days are easy and I think you'll be supprized with what you can do.

Please say rest between these. Taking 1:00 (preferable for marathon training) is very different than taking 4:00 and it can distort your workout.[/quote]

Oh yea, sorry about that. 1:00 rest no way for me. I'm too much of a pansy for that.

I take 3:30 min rest inbetween.

I think if I do 1:00 rest I could pull of 5:45s for 6 on a good day... but thats just spit balling.

Burger wrote:

Please say rest between these. Taking 1:00 (preferable for marathon training) is very different than taking 4:00 and it can distort your workout.

Oh yea, sorry about that. 1:00 rest no way for me. I'm too much of a pansy for that.

I take 3:30 min rest inbetween.

I think if I do 1:00 rest I could pull of 5:45s for 6 on a good day... but thats just spit balling.[/quote]

Oh, I typically just run an easy 400 between repeats. Do you actually stop and rest???

Burger wrote:

Please say rest between these. Taking 1:00 (preferable for marathon training) is very different than taking 4:00 and it can distort your workout.

Oh yea, sorry about that. 1:00 rest no way for me. I'm too much of a pansy for that.

I take 3:30 min rest inbetween.

I think if I do 1:00 rest I could pull of 5:45s for 6 on a good day... but thats just spit balling.[/quote]

Oh, I typically just run an easy 400 between repeats. Do you actually stop and rest???

Why would you ask RunningFart? Has he ever run a good marathon or coached anyone else to a good marathon?

Yea. I kind of jog a bit to keep my heart rate up a little, but for the most part I stop and rest for 3 1/2 min. the 400 meter rest run inbetween isnt a bad approach at all though. You should def go for your goal pace if thats how you do your mile repeats.

Go Long - I would tend to pay closer attention to your goal heart rate, but would not let go of the pace too easily. Early in the marathon, if you are running at or near the proper heart rate and the pace is a few seconds off, I would not worry about that. It's nice to have a goal, but be flexible, anything can happen. Don't kill yourself early trying to make the pace. Save that for the end.

Thanks for the input. That is likely what I will do. I don't want to abandoned the pace, but I will likely let my heart rate dictate the beginning stages of the race.

Any advise from Alan??? For those of you who have asked, I respect his input based on other posts I have read. His responses are always well thought out and encouraging.

Learn to listen to your sensory data as Mark Wetmore calls it. Don't depend on heart rate monitors so much becuase on any given day something could be different and running at a certain heart rate could be different paces everyday. Then when it comes time for your marathon your gunna have no clue as to what to do becuase youve become so dependant on using that as your marker.

My 2 cents would be to take the pace you have (ex: 6:25/mile) and run off that. That doesnt mean run all ur runs or watever it was i forget at that pace but rather determine what it feels like to run at your threshold, repitition, marathon pace and then continue running at that effort and the tmes should hopefully be within reasonable range of what ur determined timed paces should be.

When you get to race day theres no way of knowing what its going to be like and you have to be prepared for anything to happen. By learning to listen to your body you better prepare yourself for whats going to happen.

Spot On. Well said crazy kyle.

Good post. I appreciate your input.

Here, read this. Lots of talk about HR training: www.electricblues.com/Hadd.doc