Unless El Guerrouj's coaches are lying, he trains much harder on the track than Lagat:
http://www.oztrack.com/hicham.htm
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10 x 400 at 53-54 seconds("race pace") with 30 seconds rest as opposed to Lagat's 8 x300 at 42-43 with 45 seconds rest. Their tempo runs are similar in pace as well. Interesting....
evidently it's going to be a series too. That's pretty cool.
The Moroccan description is interesting, particularly this part:
Whereas the Kenyans owe their astonishing success to living at altitude, the desire to escape poverty among other factors, the Moroccan secret is more scientific, they operate one of the most meticulous and scientifically advanced training programs in the world. Their athletic results are the product of a structure and a training system, this structure comes from an organization in their national athletics federation and new training concepts.
While I agree with the statements about the Moroccan system, this implies a primitiveness and unrefinement of the Kenyan system which are simply not true. The Moroccans may view their success as more purely scientific than the Kenyan success, but that claim should not be made at the expense of the Kenyan work ethic and training regimens. I'm not going to debate the factitiousness of El G's workouts because I have no immediate knowledge of them, but I will argue that the entire site is blatantly biased towards the Moroccans and that this bias suggests a skewed perspective on Moroccan versus Kenyan training methods.
exactly...
especially that all the Morroccon athletes train at Altitude in Ifrane (2000 meters high), most being born at altitude & Morrocco is also a very poor country, athletics being one of the only ways out of misery.
Poker wrote:
Unless El Guerrouj's coaches are lying, he trains much harder on the track than Lagat:
http://www.oztrack.com/hicham.htm.
10 x 400 at 53-54 seconds("race pace") with 30 seconds rest as opposed to Lagat's 8 x300 at 42-43 with 45 seconds rest. Their tempo runs are similar in pace as well. Interesting....
I get the impression El Guerrouj's work as quoted could be absolute peak pre-season session (even then I think it's highly unlikely he could do as many as ten at this speed with as little rest) whereas Lagat's sounds unlikely to be the ultimate or peak of his training....maybe it's just more like a run-of-the-mill session.
Yes, some perspective has to be placed on these sessions or even when quoted etc. I'm the same era as Seb Coe, can't say I know him too well however asked him once if it was true the type of sessions such as 5-6 x 800 in 1:50 etc. He smiled and said "yes it was true....but only once; at most once each year would i do such a session. I did this session a lot, it was a core part of my conditioning, but if I did them in 2 minutes that was good work; if I was running them in just under then I was in good shape. Just perhaps once a year do you really turn up the intensity....this session can be very destructive and you must be well rested before and after to get benefit".
I always thought this was a very interesting comment....of course nothing like this is said by the general public/press who write/talk of Coe running 5 x 800 in 1:50 as if that's what you must do to run at that level. Maybe El G did make that 400 session once......but I can guarantee you that Lagat would be doing sessions faster and harder than 42s. So you need a fair bit of perspective.
perspective wrote:
I get the impression El Guerrouj's work as quoted could be absolute peak pre-season session (even then I think it's highly unlikely he could do as many as ten at this speed with as little rest) whereas Lagat's sounds unlikely to be the ultimate or peak of his training....maybe it's just more like a run-of-the-mill session.
Yes, some perspective has to be placed on these sessions or even when quoted etc. I'm the same era as Seb Coe, can't say I know him too well however asked him once if it was true the type of sessions such as 5-6 x 800 in 1:50 etc. He smiled and said "yes it was true....but only once; at most once each year would i do such a session. I did this session a lot, it was a core part of my conditioning, but if I did them in 2 minutes that was good work; if I was running them in just under then I was in good shape. Just perhaps once a year do you really turn up the intensity....this session can be very destructive and you must be well rested before and after to get benefit".
I always thought this was a very interesting comment....of course nothing like this is said by the general public/press who write/talk of Coe running 5 x 800 in 1:50 as if that's what you must do to run at that level. Maybe El G did make that 400 session once......but I can guarantee you that Lagat would be doing sessions faster and harder than 42s. So you need a fair bit of perspective.
Well, I mean you got to look at the El Guerrouj more carefully. He did that specific workout 4 times between May 11 - May 31 in 1997. On May 31'st he ran 3:29.5, so he was not peaking then apparently, but rounding into the form that would take him to 3:28.9 twice, and a WC Gold. At the time, he also had faster sessions known as "speed work", which included 10 x 300 at 35-36 (not listed rest). He ran nearly every day twice with some days just "warming up" aka easy running and exercises for active rest. Going by his paces and schedule I calculate his mileage at around 70 including 1 mile warmups and cooldowns. Again, this is all assuming that the information is correct, and it could be less regimented and consistent in terms of pace than the link implies.
perspective wrote:
I'm the same era as Seb Coe, can't say I know him too well however asked him once if it was true the type of sessions such as 5-6 x 800 in 1:50 etc. He smiled and said "yes it was true....but only once; at most once each year would i do such a session. I did this session a lot, it was a core part of my conditioning, but if I did them in 2 minutes that was good work; if I was running them in just under then I was in good shape. Just perhaps once a year do you really turn up the intensity....this session can be very destructive and you must be well rested before and after to get benefit".
Interesting insight from the horse's mouth. Thanks for that.
This is a great article. It brings up perhaps the most beautiful image of any Olympic Games. The sight of Lagat, after losing in the thrilling finish of the 1500, immediately going to el-G in genuine happiness for his win is perfect. It's perfect. At that moment, we all wanted to be both el-G the champion, and Lagat, the true Olympian.
I want this guy to win in China. Go Lagat.
Who is Benard Lagat?
"Read" as a noun is way overused.
from the cia factbook, income:
ethiopia: $221/person/year
kenya: $799
morocco: $2100
lagat could hardly have walked down guerrouj, before losing just barely, in 2004 or destroyed the field last year at world's in the 1500m and 5000m without doing faster stuff than 300 in 42, even at altitude. maybe he was doing 42s in June when Webb destroyed him at Reebok and Nationals. I like the 1:10 half marathons lagat runs weekly at 7000 ft.
guerrouj also had a lot of strength and jumping exercises, 10x300m hills, and was going close to 5 minute mile pace or well under at times on most of his runs--aerobic runs are listed 8xweek during his early phase, although some of that (30 min or 45-50 or 60) must be warmup or recovery.