Don't ANY (middle-)distance runners know how to START or take a PASS?

You sound exactly like every bitter sprinter-oriented head-track coach who is jealous that his distance team saves his job every year. As such, let me set you straight.

1) In a mid-distance/distance race, it is almost never beneficial to be the first one off the line. To avoid congestion, for one. And second, rarely do you want to be the athlete leading the race halfway through, because in a major conference championship level race- you WILL be run down like a little bitch. Races are won in the final 100-200 meters. Not at the start.

2) Your second point actually makes a little more sense, but you're making a mountain out of a ant hill. especially if you are talking DMR, which I am assuming. In the DMR(or any distance race) all of the technique in the world is not going to help you if the other team is just faster. This is only sometimes true in the sprinting world, so I can see why you might find this bothersome. But you're stil dumb.

Good day, sir.

hey dumbass, that's like asking a a car engine mechanic to do a heart bypass. they do the same thing, but it's totally different.

How many "distance oriented" schools are there compared to "sprint oriented" or even "field event" oriented?? This may be the case at your school, but do not believe for an instant this is the norm...

In reply to your "points".

1.) In a championship distance race, as you stated, it may not be to one's advantage to lead, however if your going to jog through any more than 4 laps in your event, you may as well jog the shortest distance. This is accomplished by getting to the rail. It's ok to let others pass until the pace picks up... Boxed? Well, with the flood of people you think are going to pass you, surely you can find an opening. If not, hit the weight room a bit more...

2.) The technique the OP speaks of is tried and true. In a DMR I'd bet it's nearly 5 seconds saved. That's roughly 30 meters at 4 minute mile pace... Our 4:09 is gonna beat your 4:05, because of hand-offs with all others equal.

e) do you run an open race with a metal pipe in your hand?

f) do you run an open race with people standing around at the finish line?

Sometimes a safe handoff is better than a pretty handoff. dropping the baton is a bit slower than turning around to take it.

1) No, the rail most definitely isn't the place to be. If the pace is slow, you're much better off running on the line between lanes 1 and 2 (as recommended by Coe). The pace is easy so you shouldn't have any problem keeping up even if you have to run a bit further, and you'll be able to respond to any move without the danger of being boxed in. The time to run on the inside is when the pace is fast, when running the extra distance actually matters.

2) Yes, it is the correct technique. No, it won't save you that much time ,unless you really suck. My high school 4x100 team manage to run faster than their PBs combined even though they make all the mistakes mentioned above. I think college athletes should be able to manage that!

you are insane if you think you can knock five seconds off of a DMR following the tips describe above. 1 or 2 seconds maybe I'll give you.

College Grad wrote:

2.) The technique the OP speaks of is tried and true. In a DMR I'd bet it's nearly 5 seconds saved. That's roughly 30 meters at 4 minute mile pace... Our 4:09 is gonna beat your 4:05, because of hand-offs with all others equal.

Actually, when passing the baton in a sprint relay, it is the responsibility of the passer to get the stick in the hand of the passee. In a distance relay, it is the responsibility of the passee to get the baton--for obvious reasons.

Ok...maybe not obvious to some...after running an all-out 1600, 1200, 800 or 400, the passer is lucky to know who his guy is, let alone execute a blind pass.

It's not a BLIND exchange. Read the OP's statement again...

You simply get up to speed as the incoming runner gets close so you are both moving at the same rate, thereby NEVER SLOWING THE BATON. The exchange is made visually by turning your head slightly, not your body. I knew you distance guys weren't coordinated, but jesus, it's not that hard.

And I would still bet it's close to 5 seconds saved. That's just over 1 second per handoff. Not much time at all. Think about it, how often do you see those idiots stumbling, hopping, heck, the baton nearly comes to a complete stop in some instances!

ReeeLay wrote:

Ok...maybe not obvious to some...after running an all-out 1600, 1200, 800 or 400, the passer is lucky to know who his guy is, let alone execute a blind pass.

Yeah, I'm sure there are plenty of people finishing up their all-out 1600 leg wondering where the guy is they expect to hand off to.

College Grad wrote:

And I would still bet it's close to 5 seconds saved. That's just over 1 second per handoff. Not much time at all. Think about it, how often do you see those idiots stumbling, hopping, heck, the baton nearly comes to a complete stop in some instances!

You do realize there are only 3 handoffs and not 4? So you're suggesting almost 2 seconds lost per handoff? I'd be surprised if the entire handoff process took 2 seconds, let alone 2 seconds longer than it needs to be.

College Grad wrote:

It's not a BLIND exchange. Read the OP's statement again...

CG, I don't think the poster above you was disagreeing with you...

I think Reeelay's point was to reinforce that in the longer relays it's NOT a blind exchange, but rather a visual pass, and that it's the outgoing runner's job to make the pass "work."

College Grad wrote:

It's not a BLIND exchange. Read the OP's statement again...

You simply get up to speed as the incoming runner gets close so you are both moving at the same rate, thereby NEVER SLOWING THE BATON. The exchange is made visually by turning your head slightly, not your body. I knew you distance guys weren't coordinated, but jesus, it's not that hard.

And I would still bet it's close to 5 seconds saved. That's just over 1 second per handoff. Not much time at all. Think about it, how often do you see those idiots stumbling, hopping, heck, the baton nearly comes to a complete stop in some instances!

Agreed. I've never run on a collegiate relay team, but in my high school 4X800 days it would always annoy me that none of the guys that I handed off to seemed to grasp the idea that you have to start running before the baton is in your hand. I'd always have to slow down just to avoid running into or passing the guy I was handing off to. The exchange zone is a pretty big space. Might as well use more than the first three feet of it.

Codger, the amateurish starting technique of college runners drives me nuts. Their coaches should be drawn & quartered.

Listen to me people: IT IS A NO-BRAINER, and not that difficult to learn. Do 6 standing starts CODGERS way, then do 6 numbskull starts your way. CODGERS system beats yours out every time.

Those morons who say Codgers technique will put you in the lead are actually confirming that his way is the better.

Oh, heaven forbid you are leading a 20 man field around the first bend. Better you use a lousy technique so you are ideally positioned in 18th.

Besides being a better technique, it puts you in a racing frame of mind....not that awkward stutter step of your starting technique.

I think Codger is referring to Wisconsin.

As for relays, the outgoing runner often thinks it is his duty to get the baton. Actually it is the incoming runners duty...tired or not. Outgoing runner stick your hand behind you firm and perfectly still and let the incoming runner do his job.

No need to thank me and Codger; your improved results will be thanks enough.

And college coaches - do your job...jeez!

If you're in 15th place coming off the curve, don't swing wide to the outside lane, because everyone will have cleared out, by the time you get to the exchange.

You can use your technique with your athletes vs. mine everytime, and mine will beat you everytime because they are just faster than yours.

You should add "senile" to you name.

Shoeless Ron wrote:

You can use your technique with your athletes vs. mine everytime, and mine will beat you everytime because they are just faster than yours.

You should add "senile" to you name.

Not for the first 50 yards.

lets be honest when the 800 man is finishing his leg of the DMR he is pretty god damn tired after running a low 2:00 min split. It is without a doubt in my mind that the 1600 leg receiving the baton is the one responsible for letting the 800 leg know where he is, and is responsible for making sure that the baton gets into this had. there is no reason for the 1600 leg to "stick your hand behind you firm and perfectly still and let the incoming runner do his job." yes you are suppose to start running when the baton is coming in, but not like you describe it in a DMR. that only works for the 4x100, 4x200, and sometimes (if the it is a very fast) 4x400 team.

thank you and goodnight.

Technique #1 (usually successful): Incoming runner holds the baton in front of him in a vertical position. Outgoing runner grabs it.

Technique #2 (usually successful): Outgoing runner puts his hand up with palm facing back and fingers up. Incoming runner puts the baton into outgoing runner's hand.

Technique #3 (often unsuccessful): Incoming runner tries to put baton in outgoing runner's hand. Outgoing runner tries to grab the baton.

Your job as coach is to make sure Technique #3 never happens.

ajayxc wrote:

lets be honest when the 800 man is finishing his leg of the DMR he is pretty god damn tired after running a low 2:00 min split. It is without a doubt in my mind that the 1600 leg receiving the baton is the one responsible for letting the 800 leg know where he is, and is responsible for making sure that the baton gets into this had. there is no reason for the 1600 leg to "stick your hand behind you firm and perfectly still and let the incoming runner do his job." yes you are suppose to start running when the baton is coming in, but not like you describe it in a DMR. that only works for the 4x100, 4x200, and sometimes (if the it is a very fast) 4x400 team.

thank you and goodnight.

I don't entirely agree. Too many outgoing runners are so focused on the incoming runner that they don't present a good consistent target for the incoming runner to handoff to. AND it is much easier to handoff a baton, than to grab it....fewer dropped batons that way. No matter how tired the incoming runner, it is his duty to handoff the baton - that is why they call it a handoff, not a graboff.

Sweet dreams.