Harsh treatment of bandit

they should be pulled from the course immediately.. no bib no running the race. pacing or not.

I love it!

I hope to hear more stories like this! I wonder what the charge was. Probably disorderly conduct for arguing with the cop. Hope it was theft of services to!

Very cool!

I think it all depends on the situation. If this lady was trying to place, then the guy was way out of line. If this lady was just trying to finish and was getting some support, the cop was being an ass.

Was it Don Malen?

patio wrote:

Hope it was theft of services to!

Very cool!

\"Theft of services\"???

Did the marathon rent the roads?

Good job.

Bandit ==> illegal runner out there on a course that is paid for with entry fees and so forth.

Get 'em off the course.

Why did you call the cop a redneck? He's doing what he is paid to do.

If the guy is a bandit, he is already out of line--that is what a bandit is, someone running without following the rules of the event. What is so difficult to understand?

Where exactly is it a law that you can't use roads that are closed by a race? I agree with the spirit of the thread: bandits should pay their dues. But, road races generally get permits, not lisences to use the roads and have them closed. The streets are still the city's, regardless of who is using them. If the bandits are drinkning bear and eating food, that's theft. Running a course is not unless the person is deliberately messing with the race. Running bandit is not necessarily a crime, though some people can get worked up about it. Remember, running is only a sport.

Candlestick Park is owned by the taxpayers of the City and County of San Francisco.

At the next 49ers home game I'm going to go out onto the field and do some strides. Its my field goddammit and I have as much right to be out there as anyone.

Whats wrong with banditing again?

Okay. I don't have the permit in hand to read the inclusions and exclusions--ya got me.

Allow me to use the disclaimer...generally...typically...usually...When we issued (I worked for a municipality) permits there was an explicitly implied audience. Persons not complying with the intent of the permit were, duh, breaking the law.0

I don't have specific knowledge of the St. George Marathon permit. Apparently you do.

"...If the bandits are drinkning bear and eating food, that's theft..." Weird statement...what did you mean here?

If they are drinking bear...leave 'em the hell alone.

"Remember, running is only a sport." Yeah, sure--the hell with the rules, regulations, governing bodies, and whatever else gets in your way of a good time. If you are out there racing against someone and you are just getting the edge when a friend of the competitor comes off the sidewalk, starts encouraging, cajoling, pacing your competitor and your competitor comes back to life...you won't mind a bit, will you? You agreed to race registered competitors as well as anyone who stepped on the course along the way, didn't your?

not getting it,

You can't compare the two, first the football game is not an open event the race is. Second, although paid for by the tax payer the stadium isn't a public thru-way the road is. No one is allowed on the football fld. except the players, during a marathon even with streets closed, they still allow peds. to walk up and down the street and many of the businesses along the course may actually be open and at many only one side of the street is closed at certain points during the race. Last year I jumped in from 22-4 miles to help my wife who was on her last leg and needed someone to encourage her. I ran in front of nobody, I took no water, she was not in the hunt to place. I ran the same streets I run on everyday. bandit maybe, criminal not hardly. However, let me ask another question on this subject. I ran from my house to the start of the race that morning to get ym long run in before driving around the course to cheer for my wife. It was well before the race started but some of the streets had been closed already, that make me a bandit???

Bear=beer

And banditing for me is a person who starts, runs, and, finishes a race without paying...then, more likely than not, heads to the drink table, gets some food, a beer, and, starts hanging out. That's wrong. Some bozo that hops onto a course in the middle of a race is not a bandit, unless it was planned, and, in that case, is either being an idiot (running by themselves) or helping a cheater (by pacing others).

As for some person cheating...unless you've got proof and it's a big enough race to matter (i.e., money, sponsors, publicity) it's simply disrespectful. Should it be done...no. Should somebody be arrested for being rude...no.

As for the legal implications of the implied group, I'll reiterate my point: it's only running. No one's life depends on this. If it's a big enough deal to merit that sort of attention, there will be people who will solve the problem before it becomes that big of an issue (race monitors). Whether it's breaking the law...gray area. If you brought a case like this before a judge, he would get pissed off at you for pursuing it (if you were a race director) and more pissed off at the person.

A race is NOT an open event. To participate you have to enter, pay the fee and sign the disclosure.

Like the football stadium the road is public property and if the public decide that permits should be issues to restrict that land's use from time to time then the public has that right. San Francisco permits the 49ers to have sole use of their stadium on select days of the year.

In the case of a road race, the Race Director applies for a permit to close the road for his event and restrict the passage of vehicles and non-participating pedestrians (bandits). The public through our eleceted officials in local government then decides wether its a good idea or not to issue the permit. San Francisco, or any municipality for that matter, can issue a restricted use permit for a race, or a street fair, or a block party, and cede access priviliges to the permit holder.

If a permit is issued for a race and the road is closed you have no right to run on it any more than you have to drive an 18 wheel truck down it.

Get it now?

Well, people can rollerblade during a race or ride a bike without comment, so long as it doesn't affect the results or performance of individuals. Now, if it helps people, they won't say anything. So, in reality, the only time a bandit is a problem is if it throws off someone's game. In that case, the person is either being picky and trying to find excuses to rationalize their poor performance or they will see no harm and won't say anything.

In a legal sense, it's not so much the city that is harmed but intended group. So, unless someone in the intended group complains, I don't see anything wrong with it. Nobody is getting hurt.

Thats all well and good until a bandit knocks over and injures a little kid and the race director gets his ass sued for turning a blind eye to non-registered runners running in his race.

Pay your freakin entry fee if you want to run in a race. If you just want to go for a run, go to the damn park.

This has nothing to do with people asserting their "rights" and everything to do with tight fisted penny pinching freeloading.

If somebody is willing to invest time and money to put on a race for runners, don't steal from them. There's more to race "services" than water and bagels. If you get on that closed road you are stealing thousands of man hours of preparation and organization.

get a Life, get a job and get a number.

"As for some person cheating...unless you've got proof and it's a big enough race to matter (i.e., money, sponsors, publicity) it's simply disrespectful. Should it be done...no. Should somebody be arrested for being rude...no."

Sorry, I hadn't considered the idea that it is cheating only if there is prize money, sponsors, etc.,...what a marvelous idea. No prize money, ergo; no cheating.

"As for the legal implications of the implied group, I'll reiterate my point: it's only running. No one's life depends on this."

Hmmm, I think I should bow out of this one. The idea that a life being threatened is the dividing point for rules, law, and enforcement of those laws leaves me dazed and blank. I am numbed just thinking of all the laws we should throw out...the civil courts have just been disbanded.

Thank you for providing such an enlightened view.

Whatever happened to taking responsibility for your actions?

All the rationalizing in the world doesn?t excuse banditry. Yet those on here who don?t see anything wrong with it are starting with the conclusion they?d like to reach, and then assembling the excuses to justify it.

I?d at least have some respect for somebody who?d come on here and say, ?Hey, I don?t think it?s harmful, even if it is wrong, and I?m going to do it. And take the chance that I could get arrested.?

Look there's only so much that you can control. So somebody steps on a course and does hurt a kid. The race director couldn't stop that to begin with; it is a free country. If a person disobeys the "rules" of the race, what makes you think they're going to fess up to it? How can someone blame a race director for an action they did not approve of? If the person was not liable for their actions by agreeing to them on paper with a signature, what makes the person running the race liable for the actions of an independent individual?

You seem to have mistaken my point with my agreeing with banditting. I don't think banditting is right, but, it's not murder and it's not theft in my mind unless something is actually taken. I've organized races single-handedly as well as with others. I've also run many races. I don't think it's a problem because I've done it. Not very often, but, I think you guys are making too much of it.

My point, again, is that this is a sport: it's not politics, it's not banking, it's not medicine. It's a leisure activity for most people and only a small part of life. I think it's rude for someone to try to receive goods for performance if they haven't registered. However, when I bandit, I run small races where I will run faster than anyone there anyway. I ask the race director beforehand and only do it with agreement. No harm, no foul.

You are acting as if a single individual is disrespecting every single person there if the take advantage of a public event. If you want to niggle hairs, you can find your own rationale, but, in 20 years, what's it gonna matter?

As for races taking thousands of man hours, I wouldn't bandit a race large enough to require that much work. I would bandit a race with 24 people around a college campus on a Tuesday night.

I'm disappointed in you, Will. Your attitude in this matter is not very Christian...

Will, you have absolutely no sense of fair play and honesty.