Hall is running London

Glim Lestes wrote:

Hall is running London. So any of the idiots at USATF that said that the Trials were being held in November so that the athletes would have 10 months to focus on the Olympics, were not being honest with us.

I'm glad to see Ryan running London. All the top Kenyans are running London so they'll have to double back like Ryan.

There were a lot of good reasons to put the Trials in NY but I and a lot of people never bought into the idea, that the fall marathon was best because it would let the athletes focus on Beijing. If a fall date was universally accepted as better then how come it had never been done before?

With the financial $$$ at stake now, for a guy to just run the Trials and not to run another marathon until the next Fall is asking a lot.

Ryan by running the Trials is losing money. Sure he got $60,000 for winning but now he's getting more than that from a major marathon if he runs well.

Then to have him skip a major marathon in the spring, then run the Olympics for free is asking a lot especially if the Olympics don't go well. If the Olympics go great obviously that changes the financial landscape but if they don't basically he is giving up 1 marathon in the spring, running the Trials for under market value, then not getting paid at the Olympics. That is asking a lot. Remember Ritz got close to $200,000 for his debut in NY. Ryan isn't getting that much but giving up 6 figures for 3 straight races financially is asking a lot. Ryan after Cheruiyot, Geb, and Tergat is arguably the most sought after marathoner in the World because he is white and American. Let's not forget that. That is the reality.

And if he doesn't run one in the fall what's he going to do, sit around and run track races where he never has run up to his potential. There are a lot of reasons besides the financial ones to run London. I'm excited to see him do it.

His run in NY was truly magical. He basically could be the male version of Paula Radcliffe (just perfectly made for the marathon and not as good on the track.) (No I'm not saying he's going to get the WR by 3 minutes)

Mr. Johnson,

I am not criticizing Ryan Hall for running London. I am however very critical of the idiots resonsible for having the trials in November. Months before the trials, Glenn Latimer claimed that by having the trials in November the Olympians would have 10 months to focus on "just the games". I said this was bull shit. I said that any athlete that had a break out race would be scooped up by London or Boston. I also said that others would focus on track and we would be in a wait and see stage to find out who are Olympians are. WELL, HERE WE ARE. I am sure that Boston will be coming out with something about adding Brian Sell to their field.

Glim Lestes wrote:

Hall is running London. So any of the idiots at USATF that said that the Trials were being held in November so that the athletes would have 10 months to focus on the Olympics, were not being honest with us.

They might have wanted those that placed 4th and up to have time to prepare for the track trials, so as to not leave it as an all-or-nothing race in the marathon.

wejo wrote:

I'm glad to see Ryan running London. All the top Kenyans are running London so they'll have to double back like Ryan.

The Kenyans have done exactly what in WC or OG competition?

won the Osaka WC Marathon to name one.

It's impossible for you to know someone else's intentions....How do you know he will "focus" on London?

It's also impossible for you to know which is better for Ryan Hall -- getting one more race's worth of experience, or staying away from marathons to "save" himself.

But then again, on LetsRun.com, data never stand in the way of certainty.

Not including 05, 07 WC. I'll add those when I get a chance.

World Championships Marathon

ITA 7,13,3,7,13,6,8,4,7,2,5,10,3,11,3,6 (83,83,87,87,87,91,91,97,97,99,99,99,01,01,03,03)

JPN 1,5,5,12,3,6,7,5,8,9,12,5,10,12 (91,91,93,95,99,99,99,01,01,01,01,03,03,03)

ESP 12,14,1,5,6,1,2,6,15,1,8,15,2 (83,91,95,95,95,97,97,97,97,99,99,01,03)

ETH 2,15,9,11,12,13,1,4,7,10 (83,87,91,99,99,99,01,01,01,01)

GBR 8,5,12,13,4,7 (83,87,91,93,95,95)

KEN 1,7,9,2,8 (87,93,99,01,03)

AUS 1,4,11,8,3 (83,87,91,95,97)

TAN 5,15,6,11,15 (83,83,87,93,03)

USA 3,1,10,13 (91,93,95,97)

MEX 7,2,9,15 (91,95,95,95)

RUS 8,11,8,9 (87,87,93,97)

RSA 12,15,7,9 (97,99,03,03)

KOR 4,11 (93,03)

Olympic Games Marathon

JPN 4,4,2,4,8 (84,88,92,92,92)

KEN 7,2,3,2 (84,88,96,00) ALL Japanese-trained

GBR 3,6,4,4 (84,88,96,00)

AUS 5,5,8,7,(84,88,88,96)

ITA 1,5,5 (88,92,00)

KOR 1,2 (92,96)

ETH 1,3 (00,00)

ESP 4,5 (96,00)

TAN 6,7 (84,88)

MEX 6,8 (96,96)

RSA 1 (96)

USA 3 (04)

POR 1 (84)

IRE 2 (84)

Unrated wrote:

won the Osaka WC Marathon to name one.

Even a broken clock gets it right twice a day. Kenya has a dismal championship marathon record.

Joseph McVeigh wrote:

It's also impossible for you to know which is better for Ryan Hall -- getting one more race's worth of experience, or staying away from marathons to "save" himself.

All things considered, taking a sure payday now is better than saving it for the crapshoot later.

Wejo,

If Ritz indeed did get 200k for his 2:14 debut what is Hall getting from London? 500k? What about Meb?

I would agree, though it seems like a concession that a medal is not realistic. I would do the same. Only so many top flight marathons in a human body.

malmo wrote:

Joseph McVeigh wrote:

It's also impossible for you to know which is better for Ryan Hall -- getting one more race's worth of experience, or staying away from marathons to "save" himself.

All things considered, taking a sure payday now is better than saving it for the crapshoot later.

I agree. However, if we wanted our best team in the best condition to run well in Beijing, we should of run the Trials from February-April 2008. This would take the decision out of the hands of the athlete and their agents.

malmo wrote:

The Kenyans have done exactly what in WC or OG competition?

The failure on the part of the Kenyans was selecting their teams, a famously corrupt and inefficient process. Rarely have their very best athletes made it to the starting line of a major championship.

wejo wrote:

There were a lot of good reasons to put the Trials in NY but I and a lot of people never bought into the idea, that the fall marathon was best because it would let the athletes focus on Beijing. If a fall date was universally accepted as better then how come it had never been done before?

With the financial $$$ at stake now, for a guy to just run the Trials and not to run another marathon until the next Fall is asking a lot.

Im confused as to when would be a better time than the fall for the trials? Obviously, the statement that it would give athletes 10 months to "focus on Beijing" is ridiculous, but it does give the top three the freedom to have a full track season and see if they would be better served to run an Olympic 10k for instance (ritz).

And sionce marathon training is very different from track training, you can have ALL the top distance runners training for the marathon in the fall, and then all the top TRACK distance runners training for the track in the spring/summer and have them undistracted from their track training.

And as far as money goes, hell and all the others were going to have to skip a payday either in the fall or in the spring, so it more or less evens out doesnt it. Unless you are suggesting they eliminate the trials altogether.

I would think the runners like the Fall trials more than anyone else, it allows them to pocket $ for a spring (and fall for those who don't make it) marathon ...

a guy like Khalid can have a good spring marathon and then get a good rate in the fall...why not..

Correction....Hal is running London

I don't know if this is a wise idea on the part of Mr. Hall. He'll sure get paid nicely for it, but is it smart? Time will tell.

David Monti wrote:

malmo wrote:

The Kenyans have done exactly what in WC or OG competition?

The failure on the part of the Kenyans was selecting their teams, a famously corrupt and inefficient process. Rarely have their very best athletes made it to the starting line of a major championship.

David,

Come on, be honest, tell the whole story. I will be willing to bet that yourself and Carey Pinkowski will be at the Olympic Games with contracts in hand, just waiting for a couple of big shooters to DNF. The athletes all know this. In other words, the athletes have a financial benefit (courtesy of major fall marathons), to DNF. That has as much to do with the lack of success of the Kenyans as anything else.

A better comparison would be to go and look at the Olympic Marathon and World Champs champs and see how many of them did not run a spring marathon.

As far as I can tell going back to 1996, only 1 person Abel Anton in 1997, did not run a marathon earlier in the same calendar year before winning the Olympic or World Champs. (From this article

http://www.sporting-heroes.net/athletics-heroes/displayhero.asp?HeroID=71

I feel fairly confident he did not run a marathon in 1997 and drop out:)

Olympics first

1996 Thugwane- ran the capetown marathon in February, won the Olympics in August.

2000 Aberra, ran Fukuoka in December (1st), Boston in April (2nd) and won the Olympics. Granted the Olympics were later in the year but clearly he didn't care about wear on the body.

2004 Baldini 4th in London in April, Olympic champ in August.

Now for the World Champs

1997 Abel Anton I don't see a spring marathon for him, he could have dropped out but he's the only one I don't see one

1999 Abel Anton 3rd in London (april) world champ in August

2001 Abera after doing Fukuoka in Dec 1999, boston in 2000, and winning the olympics in 2000 in Sept, he did fukuoka in december of 2000, Boston in April 2001 (16th), won the World Champs and did Fukuoka that December after them

2003 Gharib 6th in Rotterdam in April, World Champ in August

2005 Gharib 2nd in London in April World Champ in (early) August

2007 Luke Kibet won Wien marathon in April, won World Champs in August

So there you have it 8 of the 9 last World or Olympic champs ran a marathon earlier in the same calendar year they won their Olympic or World title.