Japanese training system in Fukuoka,

What impressed me the most was the ability of these average runners to turn on the heat after their steady 20km session, by running the 2km loop at close to top speed in 5:32 (13:45/5000 pace). That is a real lung burster, and the pay off from this kind of finishing speed really helps the Japanese run like machines when they get on the roads.

The big focus here is the Ekiden races.

Forgot to mention. All the athletes in the group were aged between 20-23.

Ghost in Fukuoka

Genki Jacs = ranked in top 3 Japanese schools for Japanese study for foreigners.

Ikkyuu Level 1 to Yon Kjuu Level 4

By the last level you will know 2000 kanji, 10,000 words, after 900 hours of study.

Looks very very much like Van Aaken to me. Others could speak to this more authoritatively.

How do the succesful japanese women ie Noguchi, Takahashi, Shibui train???

escargot wrote:

Looks very very much like Van Aaken to me. Others could speak to this more authoritatively.

Van Aaken´s system centers around lots of slow running with a little fast running almost every day.

if ghost was coaching them, today would've been a 45-minute run and some cross training...

oops! wrote:

escargot wrote:

Looks very very much like Van Aaken to me. Others could speak to this more authoritatively.

Van Aaken´s system centers around lots of slow running with a little fast running almost every day.

I have read two of Van Aaken's books.

What I mean to say is that Van Aaken advocated these sorts of - what he called - crescendo runs, in which the pace would build continuously throughout the run. He did believe in lots of slow running, but not always and the really high quality stuff - like the 2k the Fukuoka runners did - at the end. I will concede that, based on my reading of Van Aaken's books, that he would not have advocated that the 2k be run so fast if these guys were 10k specialists (maybe they were training for an upcoming 5k, though...)

If this is the sort of training they do everyday, then, I agree, it is not Van Aaken. Perhaps this is an unusal session. It seems much harder than the training of other Japanese - at least day to day. Ghost?

Good stuff. Thank you

Maybe Vlad will see this thread. He could answer since he trained under van Aaken for a period in the late 60's or early '70's.

It may or may not be van Aaken style but you still shouldn't assume something based on what you didn't see. What Ghost observed is a typical Japanese "point" workout to me.

Where can i find out more about the Japanese training programs and their training? Or overall about the Japanese Marathon tradition

Nobby - If you can, please post some of the training / workouts from your days with the Electric Company Team. Your insight and comments are great additions and very, very much appreciated.

bump

Good stuff Ghost... thanks!

I do not think we can make a determination about a training system from looking at one day. When I stayed in Sendai back several years ago I saw a group of Japanese runners that were training at around 5-5:15 pace (per km) for at least two hours several days in a row (split into two or more sessions). I was staying in an area that looked out on the loop (about 2k) that they trained on. I never saw them do anything fast, but there is no doubt in my mind that they could have dropped the pace to 3:00 anytime they wanted. Graceful to watch them run, but unlike the Kenyans (who seem to more float with a long stride- high knees, etc). The Japanese runners I have seen are more powerful (low knee lift, lower arm carry, etc). One thing they both share (other than the obivious of running fast) is that they do not converse during the run (regardless of how slow they are running). At the time I felt it was very EVA type of training, but I was unable to gain any knowledge of the actual training concepts.

vladimir is totally correct Japan never train fast, lot, lot kilometers but slow, slow, really slow.

Japan Training wrote:

vladimir is totally correct Japan never train fast, lot, lot kilometers but slow, slow, really slow.

...and Lydiard did nothing but 100MPW of LSD.

I do not think anyone thinks that Japanese runners alway run slow anymore then anyone thinks that Lydriad just had his charges run a mindless 100 miles a week. It all comes down to what we see (like the tip of an iceberg). There is quite a bit of similar aspects of EVA and AL. Both wanted a strong foundation prior to any speed. I think that if EVA had geared his concepts more towards elite athletes than making a generation healty we would have seen quite a bit more of his results. From what I see the major differences is a specific hill and sharping phases (AL). EVA saw race results as a bonus of getting in shape. I remember EVA telling me that "you can find your wife on the track or at the market" His way of saying that you the road to success is as diferent as there are options. I think the more time we spend talking about EVA, AL, Cerruity, etc the more we will learn that there is no one single "best" way to the top of our sport- pick the one that works best for you and enjoy the trip.

vladimir- wrote:

I do not think anyone thinks that Japanese runners alway run slow anymore then anyone thinks that Lydriad just had his charges run a mindless 100 miles a week.

Vladimir:

I know; I was being sarcastic toward what "Japan Training" was saying. I would hope they don't think it's all slow running, but obviously some still do unless HE is being sarcastic.

Runbird wrote:

Nobby - If you can, please post some of the training / workouts from your days with the Electric Company Team. Your insight and comments are great additions and very, very much appreciated.

Bob Hodge has Inubushi's training leading up to his 2:06 marathon at Berlin; and Seko leading up to his 5th place at Fukuoka in 1976; both of which I had given to him. Bear in mind; Seko's training at that time was not quite structured.

If I say this, some people would go jump up and down and start to scream; but basically they all follow fundamental Lydiard principles. You ask ANY successful Japanese coaches today, they would tell you they follow basic Lydiard. Of course, when you take a look at their day-to-day training, it's nothing like what you see in Lydiard's book. Well, they do read between the lines and seem to understand. It's not that difficult once you get it. Most people still don't get it.

Like I said, some people would go berserk (Skuj, Here We Go Again, whoever) but I'd say go talk to them and report back. I know most of those Japanese coaches. Incidentally, I thought there would be an article written by Brendan Reilly, the Irish Japanese connection, in Running Times about Japanese running. That would be a good one to read. I believe he mention a thing or two about Lydiard's influence in Japan (so I heard).