Some more information about kenyan athletes

World Indoor record holder of 10000m

I didn't know they kept records of indoor 10's. It's such a rare race.

Howdy Renaldo! Could you get a feller who speaks better English to cipher you post fer us?

Yes, it's a very rare race, but last year in Gent Mark Bett ran in 27'51" beating Luke Kipkosgei. The organizer asked me if I had an athlete able to beat the record, 3 months before the race, otherwise the race was only of 5000m. The previous record was of Emiel Puttemans, and of sure was not difficult to beat. In any case, is the best performance indoor all-time.

But now I want to say something about WILFRED BUNGEI, that is coached by Gianni Ghidini, italian coach already trainer of Andrea Benvenuti (1'43"92, 5th in OG '92 and European Champion '94). Bungei, silver medal in Junior Championships '98, had an improvement in his career very gradual and linear. This is his career, till now :

1'47"21 (98) - 1'45"14 (99) - 1'44"23 (2000) - 1'42"96 (2001) - 1'42"34 (2002) - 1'42"52 (2003). He won silver medal in WCH 2001 back Bucher, and bronze in indoor. From 3 years he doesn't lose one race from another kenyan. He was the leader in the world before World Ch., and was the favourite before Trials. He was sick (not malaria, but pneumonia) during Trials, for about one week, beeing recovered in Kenyatta Hospital. The Officials of AK went to meet him, really unable to compete. So, it wasn't a very bad sickness, but the period was very inappropriate. Do you know how much money he lost not winning WCH ? About 140.000 dollars, considering official prize, bonus from the Company and improvement in appearance. The fact that the qualified runners were not so good (also Joseph Mutua was out for a tactical mistake) provoked many rumours in Kenya, and probably is the first step for changing the rules for selecting athletes.

Bungei has an American behavior, not a Kenyan. He lives now long time in Italy, in Bussolengo near Verona, near the Lake of Garda, and trains with William Yiampoy (1'42"91 last year, this year injured during Milano meeting for a wound provoked on his tendon by the spikes of another runner). Next year, I want to send also Mutua with them, because with a top omogeneus group is possible to improve yet a little, running under 1'42" (potentiality Mutua can be the best, having a terrible speed). Improvements of Bungei are due to great seriousness in training and in planning his life. Under this point of view he's not like old kenyans. Now he will compete in Moscow, then finishes the season, resting no more than one month. OG are in his focus for winning Gold Medal, without any drug. I want to remember that Kenyan Record lasts from 19 years, beeing of Sammy Koskei (1'42"28 in 1984).

This is all very interesting, keep posting. I'm curious about Steven Cherono (Shaheen something something now).

Sorry, I write using sometime a vocabulary, and don't know the signification of HOWDY, CIPHER and FER. Can you are so kind for writing something in a normal, schoolastic English, so I can understand ?

Anyway, I continue speaking about NICHOLAS KEMBOI. He was already n. 4 and n. 7 in two different editions of World Cross Country Junior Ch. (2001 - 2002), so was not an unknown athlete. I'm his coach from september of 2001. Soon after WCCCH 2002, he was injured in a muscle, and lost 4 months of the past season. When came back, was not able to do any speed workouts, because yet felt pain in the leg. So, I decided to move him to longer distances, as he has the possibilities to become a very top marathon runner in the future (he's really born at the end of 1983). In march of this year, he was able running HM in Lisbon in 60:31, without any specific training, demonstrating his attitudes for long run. Then, was for about 40 days in Portugal for some road race, and went to Hengelo (10000m) without track preparation. His 28'19" was not so bad. After 2 weeks in Kenya, he came with me in Switzerland (Davos) from the beginning of July. I preferred to develop a good base of volume, running about 250 km per week during the first 2 weeks, with very slow training on track, but using short sprints uphill (60-80m about) for improving his capacity in recruiting the most part of his muscular fibres. He went running in Sotteville (13'42", 5th position) on 8/07, then in Algier (19/07), yet 13'42". Only after this race I decided to put some work of speed in his training. In short time, I discovered his speed, and was a surprise also for me. After a work with 4 sets of 600/500/400/300/200m (2 min rec. and 5 min among sets) in 1'33" / 1'16" / 60" / 44" / 28", he was able running the last 200m (free) in 23"7 ! So, speaking with him, I understood that he was not fast BECAUSE WAS SURE TO BE SLOW. He decided to try, changing his mentality. So, he went to Heusden (2/08) running in 13'14"43 after pacing (3rd position), then in San Sebastian (10/08) yet in 13'14"32 n. 2 with many mistakes during last lap, then in Zurich (15/8) almost won running in 13'01"14 with a good final. So, we decided to train hard 3 weeks for running 10000 in Bruxelles. I was sure about 26'45", but 26'30" surprised me also. In any case, during the last period his improvement was terrible, because every thing was really easy. For ex., on 23/8 he did a work with 3000m (2' rec) 6 x 60m sprint climbing (2' rec) x 4 times, more a final 1000 fast. His times were (in St. Moritz from 31/7, at 1800m of altitude) 8'23", 8'24", 8'17", 8'23" and 2'30"5 with last lap in 54"6 and last 200 in 24"8 (Kwalia took 5" during last lap). Kemboi may be the new Gebre, able running from 1500m to marathon. Not drug, but big talent and big motivation, and also big intelligence, because there are other athletes coming to Europe at the same level, but not able to improve because "too much kenyans" yet....

Renato, I would like to say THANKS for spending your time on here, and I really appreciate the inside scoops as do others. Do me one favor: IGNORE the people who will make fun of your english or try to be jerks for no reason. They are just bored and trying to be funny or something.

So keep the posts coming, and ignore the haters.

Could you let us know some of your training philosophy, or maybe some sample weeks from some of your best runners? That would be very interesting! Obviously the Kenyans you train are just amazingly talented, but you had success coaching many athletes, and several non-Kenyans. What are some of the foundations of your training principles?

THANKS

Howdy Settler, why so hostile? It wud sher help if Renato wrote so'd we kud understand, wudn't it?

Renato. CIPHER is scholastic English. FER and HOWDY are American colloquial slang. If you are to understand conversation here you are going to need to learn a few IDIOMS, as well. You'll have to excuse Settler. Most Americans feel that anything said on a message board is intended to be an insult. They call it SMACK-DOWN. You'll get used to it.

Renato,

what brand Oxygen Tent, Heartrate Monitor, and Lactate test kits do your Kenyans use?

What temperature is their ice bath?

What special foods do the Kenyans eat? Have you ever heard of BALCO?

How many strides per breath does Kemboi take?

Which of these would the Kenyans think helps them run better: Gels, Power Bars, or Oxygen socks?

In you opinion, why do you think Americans have fallen behind?

I apologyze yet for my English, but I hope that is possible for you to understand. I want now to speak about Stephen Cherono. I was in '98-99 the coach of his older brother, Christopher Koskei, winner of 3000 SC in World Ch. '99 in Seville. When we were in St. Moritz preparing Seville, Stephen won Youth Ch. on 2000 SC, and went with Kim McDonald (while Christopher was with Gianni Demadonna). In his first years, Stephen followed the programs of Kim (never of Kiptanui, he never coached Stephen !). After the death of Kim, Stephen moved to me like coach, also pushed by Christopher. I'm his coach from the beginning of 2002. When he came to me, already had the World Junior Record with 7'58"86. When I saw his training, I was really surprised : was the training of an italian junior, not big volume, not high intensity ; only unbelieveble talent ! I spent last year in speaking with him (that is a very intelligent boy, with many interests, not only a countryman) about the need of building his body and his engine, for improving, becoming more consistant, and reducing the damages of a too big talent, that can push his body beyond his current possibilities. So, last year he began a continuous basic training, running about 90 miles per week with a good intensity, using more modulation in training, and moving to longer run with fast progressive finals. He was not able to improve very much : ran 13'11" in 5 km, 7'58"10 on steeple and 3'35" on 1500m (like the previous year). For the first time used circuits uphill for increasing his strenght, variations of speed on track for improving the permeability of membranes (quicker recovery of lactate), and our "medium pace", that is a long run (in his case 25' - 30') at 3' / 2'55" pace per km. For the first time he used also long test on track (till 2000m) that are not part of the normal kenyan methodology.

He doesn't like steeple, so never trains in technique. During winter, for having some more information about his improvement in aerobic power (I prefer to call in this way aerobic capacity), I planned with him a 5000m race. He told me : "OK Renato, I run a 5k, but only against Gebre, or Bekele, or El Guerrouj". So, we decided to meet El Guerrouj in Ostrava (12/6), renouncing to a very big appearance for running steeple, going without any appearance in the flat race. HE WANTED TO HAVE EL GUERROUJ. That's the difference between a good runner and a very big champion. This one wants to meet the number one and is stimulated by difficulties, the other prefers commod and softs situations, escaping from any type of risk.

Also in training, we prepared his type of competition. For example, he used in different periods a type of work based on variations of speed (3 times 2000m alternating speed every lap, 59" / 72" / 59" / 72" / 59" = 5'21" (really, last time was in July, with 5 min recovery, 5'19" / 5'22"6 / 5'24" with 55"8 last lap but about 76" slow laps), and tried to compete using this attitude already in Athens, when ran first lap in 59" killing all the other kenyans, except Nyamu and Misoi, previously informed about his tactic. Also in Paris, we planned to use for 3 laps Saifeldin pushing very hard, then to stay on medium pace, then to improve again after beeing reached by Ezekiel Kemboi. Really, he went alone after only 800m, and when Kemboi reached him, he jogged (1'53" from 2000 to 2600m) back Ezekiel, awaiting last 200m for winning (57"8 last lap). After the race, he told me "I wanted to demonstrate also to you who is the faster in the last 200m".

He's an artist, and his real strenght is a terrible will to win. He's the toughest athlete that I ever trained. In Montecarlo, for the first time he ran in correct way, but his shape was already about 70 %. I think that many of you saw the race : simply, he didn't want to lose. The same race, 20 days ago, could easy bring him to 7'54".

For next year, is not yet sure his Olympic Elegibility. In any case, he moves to 3000 and 5000m flat, reducing the number of races on steeple, because is better not to risk some injury, beeing him very fragile in his muscles.

Dear Pat, your questions are very interesting, but are not correct for a Kenyan. Really do you think that I can use some kit for investigating thei engin ? I'm a IAAF lecturer, and of course I also am curious in knowing their values following normal physiological parameters, but is not possible. Sometime I did some lactate test, but in altitude (St. Moritz is 1800m high), and in this case results are very different from sea level. One thing I can say, because I often make blood tests with Kenyans : they have values of Hgb very low (11-13 max), Hct also very low (37-40), and a very big Cell Volume (MCV), about 103-110. So, I think that their main attitude, regarding blood, is a very great fluidity, that reduces very much any peripheral resistance. I think also that their total volume of blood can improve, when trained, of about 20-25 %, as happens in all the big marathon runners. That's the reason because I don't think that EPO can really be an advantage for long distance runnerst : because in any case the viscosity of blood increases very much, and this fact is worse then the improvement in aerobic capacity, when you have to last long time (like in a HM or a full Marathon). I think that the best testimonial of doping are the officials of anti-doping. They have interest in emphasizing the effects of EPO on performances, for having more budget conquering more importance. Also reading what people writes in different sites, is clear that the IDEA OF DOPING has invaded the minds of many people, that now think that was normal 20 years ago now is no more possible without doping. For example, do you remember the final of 400m during OG in Rome 1960 ? Two runners, Karl Kaufmann from Germany and Otis Davis from US, arrived together in 44"9. The track was of earth, training was 5 times per week, of sure there was no doping, and also methodology was very simple : no electrostimulation, no weights, no plyometry, but little works very well identified and strictly connected with the specialism. So, if the athletes of today, with so much money, tracks of tartan or synthetic, a very developed professionality, and many new facilities, must take some drug for running like 43 years ago, probably is better to learn from the past, because we forgot the main dish, giving too much importance to the corollary. For example, why do you think that Henry Rono was clean 25 years ago, and think that an athlete of today, not drinking and preparing continuously for long time, must be doped for running 30" faster ? In Kenyan is present a genetic talent, that is not of everyone, but of some area or some family. Do you know that Bungei is cousin of Wilson Kipketer (the Danish) and nephew of Henry Ronom that is his uncle ? So, talent is in some area, but there is also something else that I try to explain later.

Now I want to answer to some your question.

About food : my kenyans eat only flour of mais (for cooking UGALI), some vegetable (carrots, onions, potatoes), some meat (expecially chicken). They drink natural water, milk and sometime Coca. Never, in 5 years (and I live long time per year with them, in the same house ; when they are in Torino they stay in my house in Italy), an African asked me something about an integrator or, in any case, some substance for helping thei body. When they have some cough (that often they call MALARIA : pay attention to this situation, because real malaria is very bad, but a "flu" for them is "malaria"), is very difficult to give them some correct medicine : they simply await. After an injury they await, after a sickness await, after any type of problems await. When I say that Bungei and Cherono (and also Nicholas Kemboi, Paul Kosgei and some other) have a European or American mentality, not Kenyan mentality, I want to refer to this behavior : they are kenyans not awaiting, but trying to face their problems. That's Africa.

About the number of strides per breath, one question : do you think that Frank Shorter or Jim Ryun paied attention to the number of strides per breath ?

I think that one of the reasons of the fall of western runners (not only American : where are now Panetta, Antibo, Lambruschini, Cova, ecc ? Where are Lopes and Mamede ? Where are Coe, Ovett, Cram and many other ? Do you know that in European Ch. '78 the number 7, David Black, ran 10000m in 27'37", and now only 3-4 athletes are able running so fast in Europe ?) is that coaches became too scientists, forgetting the instinct that is at the base of running. If you follow a training of Kenyans in the forrest with a bike, you can understand. They enjoy to fight, at the same way of young boys when challenge themselves running around a garden : no reasons, only the taste of testing themselves. In our Countries, is now very difficult to find people really enjoying to fight running. In US, many people run for fun, but nobody wants to launch himself in an aggressive work for overtaking his current limits. Speaking about marathon, for example, the idea is very wrong. I have an athlete (Nicola Ciavarella) 35 years old, running after working 8 hours per day, with personal bests of 14'33" / 30'02", able running in 2:11:23. So, why I must be surprised about Paula Radcliffe 2:15 ? I think that she can run in 2:13, if I think to her like AN ATHLETE, not like A WOMAN. Living with top runners, in my mind many things are easy, and in other people are impossible. You, and we, need to come back to more natural interpretation of running.

Renato:

Thank you for your most interesting posts, particularly the last one. I think you are absolutely correct in your assessment of non-African training values. Simply put, to run is to run.

I'm curious, do you come to Letsrun.com often? Have you posted before? If not, why did you decide to now?

Thanks again,

Mr. B.

Excellent information, Renato. I have a question about Nicola. How did you decide for him to run Genova in Feb 11 and then decide to run Napoli on Mar 18? Was Genova a bad race? More importantly, what did you he do, training, between Genova and Napoli?

Thank you.

Be careful Mr. Renato...with a statment like the following...

You, and we, need to come back to more natural interpretation of running.

You will have everyone in America screaming conspirocy...just think a call back to the basics of running or the natural interpetation of running...I can't believe my eyes...

Renato, you are the POSTER OF THE YEAR on this site in my opinion. So much insight, so many details, and so much myth-destruction.

Do you know Bob Hodge? He posts as Hodgie-san here. He ran 2:11 (2:10:59?) in the marathon back in the early 80's. He is EXACTLY on the same page as you are: don't over-think, overanalyze running. Run by feel, by instinct. Run because you love it and love to compete. And run, and run, and run. That will get one very far without knowing a damn thing about VO2 max, LT/AT, HR max and plyometrics, etc. Sure some of those things are useful to know, but it so easy to become obsessed with all of the technical aspects of the sport, and forget the purity/simplicity of running.

Run a LOT. Sometimes fast, sometimes easy. Sometimes long, sometimes short. Usually twice a day. If tired, back off a bit. Until race day, always hold a little in reserve. Race day: let it ALL out.

Keep this thread ALIVE FOR EVER!!!

Awsome information from Mr.Renato!

Renato Canova wrote:

running so fast in Europe ?) is that coaches became too scientists, forgetting the instinct that is at the base of running. If you follow a training of Kenyans in the forrest with a bike, you can understand. They enjoy to fight, at the same way of young boys when challenge themselves running around a garden : no reasons, only the taste of testing themselves. In our Countries, is now very difficult to find people really enjoying to fight running. In US, many people run for fun, but nobody wants to launch himself in an aggressive work for overtaking his current limits.

Busted "Renato". You're not really a coach from Torino, you're malmo in disguise. "Instinct that is the very base of running" Very clever malmo. Where have we heard that before? "Running is an athletic competition, not some gerbil-wheel science experiment" is how you usually phrase it.

Just kidding Renato. Keep posting and you'll understand more. THANKS.

I don't want to be a jackass and shout drugs right into his face after he provides us with all of this great information. However, nothing that was posted shoots down any theory about epo usage. 26:30 out of the blue, just because he trains and eats well doesn't mean he is above suspicion. Renato this is not an attack on you or kenyan athletes and I appreciate your comments.

Marathon Training Methods by Renato Canova:

http://www.onlinenow.com.au/rdcadelaide/Bulletin/Marathon%20Training%20-%20Bulletin.htm