2-hour runs.

I'll answer. No. Nobby is old school Lydiard, and that means varying the duration of the run every day for optimal improvement. A schedule Nobby might advise would be...

Mon 60

Tues 90

Wed 60

Thurs 90-120

Fri 60

Sat 60

Sun 120-150

I hope I'm not putting words in Nobby's mouth, but it is definitely not 2 hour daily runs.

somewhatfast wrote:

I'll answer. No. Nobby is old school Lydiard, and that means varying the duration of the run every day for optimal improvement. A schedule Nobby might advise would be...

Mon 60

Tues 90

Wed 60

Thurs 90-120

Fri 60

Sat 60

Sun 120-150

I hope I'm not putting words in Nobby's mouth, but it is definitely not 2 hour daily runs.

And to elaborate, this schedule would be used for BASE PHASE ONLY. This is pretty obvious, but I'm putting this out there just in case.

Do that for 3 mos. and you'll be fit as f**k. Then work your way through the rest of Lydiards "phases", and you're ready for a PB.

No doubles?

skiziks wrote:

somewhatfast wrote:

I'll answer. No. Nobby is old school Lydiard, and that means varying the duration of the run every day for optimal improvement. A schedule Nobby might advise would be...

Mon 60

Tues 90

Wed 60

Thurs 90-120

Fri 60

Sat 60

Sun 120-150

I hope I'm not putting words in Nobby's mouth, but it is definitely not 2 hour daily runs.

And to elaborate, this schedule would be used for BASE PHASE ONLY. This is pretty obvious, but I'm putting this out there just in case.

Do that for 3 mos. and you'll be fit as f**k. Then work your way through the rest of Lydiards "phases", and you're ready for a PB.

it's really just that simple. the secret to pb. stop all discussion now.

Daily 2 hour runs would be of little value for most runners. There have been runners who have basically run 2 hours a day for extended periods (Bob Deines, U.C.L.A. - 2:20) but their careers were always short.

Running for two hours every day will tax the body too much.

Occasional two hour runs will be more effective.

If high mileage is needed the maximum that one can run, without breaking down, is usually around 60-60 minutes max, but most of my runners (Example: Gerard Seguara - 29:50/10.000) prefer to run just 1.20 minutes daily run.

Ghost in Korea

i'm not joking dude.

stop analyzing and getting all tech and shit and just do what lydiard tells you to do. it friggin works man.

? ? ? wrote: No doubles?

Morning runs are of course such a given they don't require mention.

The two examples I thought of as guys who did well on daily two hour runs were Ed Whitlock and Bob Deines. Deines did have a short career compared to today's top athletes and some of that was injury related. But there were other factors that shortened Deines' career. By the way, Deines went to Occidental, not UCLA.

It does seem to work for Ed Whitlock.

There's a reason why alternating the distance or duration of the run each day as "old" school Lydiard might say. But the point for aerobic base building phase is to "run a lot" and, in that respect, Skiziks (whatever that means) is correct. Just get your damn runs in.

I have a 2-months base building phase of Ma's Army in the 90s. It goes something like: 12/22, 30k(AM) + 21k(PM); 12/23, 22k(AM) + 18k(PM); 12/24, 19k(AM) + rest; 12/25, 21k(AM) + 20k(PM); 12/26, 22k(AM) + no running (road too icy); 12/27, 21k(AM) + 21k(PM)...and so on and so forth.

Here's trainig schedule for Chugoku Electronic (their runner, Ogata, was a silver medalist at Helsinki and 5th at Osaka; 4 others sub-2:10) in NZ in 2004. For 12 days, 8 days were all the same; 60 minutes in AM, 90 minutes mid-day, 60 minutes in PM. They kept AM and PM same on other 4 days as well. I believe Henry Rono, at his prime, used to do something like 9 miles in AM, 9 miles PM for 6 days a week and 18 on Sunday. ("Nobby struck again! He's saying everybody is doing Lydiard!! Call the police!!!!!")

I was in Boulder last week. I did 50~60 minutes in the morning along Boulder Creek and 55 minutes up Red Rock hill in the evening for 4 days. That's roughly 2-hours a day. If you CAN do 2-hours day in and day out and feel good about it, by all means, why not? I personally think it's a bit too much.

i;m not Nobby but i did stay at a holiday inn express last night. i suppose you mean 2hrs continuous each day, not two times one hour. my personal experience is 2 hrs jogging in the morning followed by a short quick run in the afternoon works quite well. this is ultra marathon training. if i was to run rather than jog for 2 hrs, i can't imagine i would recover enough. that's just me, maybe you can.

I am THE Nobby but I didn't stay at Holiday Inn Express last night. I figured the guy was talking about 2-hour continous run. But like I said, basically, whatever turns you on. I wouldn't recommend it; but if you can do it comfortably and feel happy about it; go for it. If it's too much, don't do it.

A ? for NOBBY wrote:

NOBBY:

do you yourself advocate DAILY runs of 2-hours duration?

For the milage minded do you mean one run of 17 to 18 miles every day?

Yes and geez I didn't mean to hit a nerve with people.

Thank you each.

I don't see why, so long as you didn't hammer all the time, you couldn't do it. And the goal would be duration, not distance. I thought heart rate training changed all this thinking? You don't need to beat yourself up logging in 17 to 18 miles- if you train right, and end up only covering 15 to 16 miles in that 120 minutes, then you're still getting a significant benefit- and 14 hours/105 miles per week is not too shabby.

I recently had several months of daily 2 hour runs/7 days/week and did very well in races.

Lately, I've switched to two 90 min. runs/day/7 days/week and racing on the weekends for tempo run/speed, mostly 5Ks. My times have slowed on this new program because I'm over trained but I'm hoping for better things in 2008 when I plan to do more speed and actually taper for some races.

What 5K times are you currently running?

A secret for those who haven't tried it is that doubles of an hour each can be quite easy even though you're doing 16-20 miles a day. If the phase of training calls for it, and your real life allows 2 x 1 hour, it's a good way to get in a lot of miles. But long singles are great, and variety is great.

2 hours is a long run, and there is no way that anyone can maintain decent pace on that kind of time frame for very long. That is why most world class runners do not run much over 60" at a time, but if they run 60" twice a day, then you are looking at about 18 miles a day for world class runners.

Bill Rodgers used to run 90 mins a.m. and then about 60 minutes pm, during grad school, and it helped him improve dramatically. After a few years, though, he found that he broke down with that type of distance every day, and then switched to basically 60" + 60" per day, or 60" + 45" per day, and became a super consistent marathon guy on that.

Karel Lismont, Belgium, had an interesting training program for many years. 30-35" three times a day. Yes, you read it right - Lismont for many years used to run three half hour runs per day, with a long run on weekends, and that saw him win Euro. gold in the marathon (71/Helsinki), bronze in Munich (72) and silver in Montreal (76). He also placed very high in the world cross in the late 70's. He even managed to run a sub 28 minute 10.000 at the end of his career.

Moroccans, do not like to run over 60" and Salah Hissou (26:38/10.000) used to like running 45" + 45" per day, but at progressive speeds, with most runs finishing close to 3 minutes per km. The moroccans hate training long distances, preferring progressive runs in the 40-60 minute range, twice a day. Rhythm runners, the Moroccans.

Ahmed Salah (2:07) - training in France for years. 90" + 60" per day. A lot of mileage for the thin man, who was very light on his feet, and ran well up to the age of 40, before retiring and taking care of his 10 kids in Nice, South of France where the local club took care of his needs.

Ghost in Korea

"Get up at 6 a.m. and run for two or three hours through the bush tracks in the clean air of the morning. Home for a shower and a meal, relax for an hour or two until, say, 1 p.m.; then spend an hour exercising and follow it with an hour's training on the track--and the day is filled in and complete.

All right, I'm dreaming, but that is the simple programme that I would like to apply to an ordinary fit young athlete to see what I could achieve with his body. I know it should be possible for a man with his body in good condition to run considerable distances in the morning without affecting his track-training in the afternoon, providing there were no other energy demands on him; and that, with his twice-daily session, he could become immensely strong and fast."

'Run to the Top', Arthur Lydiard, 1962 ed., pg. 117 - 1967 ed., pg. 90