Drug Free World Records?

didnt jones run faster than that?

Yes, 2:07:15 at Chicago in 1985 but it was not a World Record then.

do you guys just not let up.

Viren? Are you serious?

Rono, unless you consider alcohol a drug.

doing such training week after week without breaking downFrom LORE OF RUNNING Tim Noakes & RUNNING with the LEGENDS Sandrock:

In his first complete marathon, Jones ran 2:08:05. In the 8 weeks leading up to the marathon Jones covered the following weekly distances: 160,134,114,114,160,152,154, and 92km, respectively.

Typical training week:

Sun.

24-32km @ 3:45/km a.m.

19km @ 3:07/km p.m.

Mon.

12-16km @ 3:07/km a.m.

10-16km p.m.

Tue.

11km including 4x5min. hard

XC or Track race p.m.

Wed.

11km a.m.

10-16km p.m.

Thu.

Hills 10 reps. a.m.

8-20km p.m.

Fri.

10-12km

Sat.

track sesion or race p.m.(16x1min. or 10x2min. or 16-24x45 secs.)

Total 135-180km/week.

Jones weekly AVERAGE 80-90 miles per week.

almost impossible to survive without drugs

You think Coe, Ovett and Cram were all dirty? Sorry, no sale.

Drugs probably hit distance running in the late 80's with the use of steroids to hasten recovery. EPO then jumped from cycling to running via you know who when he decided to go to Africa for a break from those nasty testers. The rest is history.

I agree w/ ! - Viren????

I guess blood doping/reindeer's milk isn't a drug, but...

These "true record" discussions are always funny. It usually is a chance to vote for your favorite athlete (who could never have used drugs), or push your racist beliefs (Ryun, Coe, Walker - not an African), or just show ignorance.

Performance enhancing drugs were around while all of the athletes you listed in your first post - before there were such rules, testing, etc.

But hey, it was your guess - and that's OK by me.

BDG

Coemen wrote:

Jones weekly AVERAGE 80-90 miles per week.

almost impossible to survive without drugs

impossible to average 80-90 miles per week unless you're on drugs!?!?! I AVERAGE that much and i'm in high school. this is ridiculous. you have to be a retard if you think that you have to be on drugs to average 80-90 miles each week.

BDG wrote:

These "true record" discussions are always funny. It usually is a chance to vote for your favorite athlete (who could never have used drugs), or push your racist beliefs (Ryun, Coe, Walker - not an African), or just show ignorance.

BDG

Hahahaha. Out comes the race card when you have no leg to stand on. Another weenie chewer mad because Lagat has exposed his tribe's treachery.

800 joaquim cruz 1 41 77.....marathon...bill rodgers, 2 09 .

Bill Maher wrote:

Hahahaha. Out comes the race card when you have no leg to stand on. Another weenie chewer mad because Lagat has exposed his tribe's treachery.

As a matter of interest where was Lagat mainly based during his running career. Who coached him to international level. Was he based in Kenya throughout his career

Sorry to shoot down your theory, Coeman, Jones trained at a steady 100 mpw for his marathons - and he ran them hard. The oft-cited account of Jones' last 8 weeks AVERAGE before his WR doesn't mean a damn thing. Travel time, race weeks and rest weeks are all factored in to the AVERAGE. A quick lesson in reading training logs you'll note that of those last 8 weeks Jones hit 100, 100, 95, and 96, which is quite consistant with what Jones, himself, has told me.

Anothe lesson in marathon 101: marathon training is done long before the final 8 weeks.

Drugs and performance enhancing methods hit distance running well before "the late 80's."

People have used a variety of substances throughout the history of athletics. Sure, with the professionalism of the sport and the increased availablity of effective drugs, MORE distance runners started using drugs in the 80s.

But Viren was widely rumored to be blood doping (in the 70s when it was legal), and I'm sure he wasn't the only one who was doing it.

Also, you can look at Marty Vaino in the 1984 Olympics. He finished second in the 10,000m, but lost his silver after he tested positive for steroids. According to Robert Voy (chief medical officer for the USOC back then, I believe), Marty insisted that he couldn't have tested positive for steroids. He was so insistent because he had cycled off the steroids months before - plenty of time to clear his system. However, what he didn't take into account was that when he also blood doped, the blood he put back in still had the traces of steroids left in it. So, in effect, he was the first athlete to be caught for both blood doping and steroid use. Read "Drugs, Sport & Politics" by Robert Voy for a better version of this story and a good insider's understanding of what was going on in sports/drugs.

And I like how Dr. Rosa is apparently the only doctor who could get his hands on EPO. I'm sure he was a big influence on both drug use and better training, but he wasn't (and isn't) the only one.

BDG

I think he means the intensity that Jones trained at rather than the volume. I don't doubt that the intensity was possible drug free. Jones had always trained very hard even when he was doing low mileage starting out. So he was already used to intensity and then added a bit more volume. Not impossible. If most people trained the same as Jones and adjusted the pace to fit their ability, they would likely find their mental ability to keep hammering at that rate would fail before their body started breaking down. That was his strength and he exploited it to the maximum.

Undoubtedly Jones needed the mental edge of knowing without a doubt he was fit. Whatever works for you is what you should be doing.

Politically Incorrect-

I didn't pull out the race card. I was pointing out how people take advantage of a drug bust like Lagat's to push their own agenda. I chose the names Walker, Ryun and Coe because those are names I've seen thrown around as "true" record holders. Who the hell knows who the "true" record holders are? To say that everybody from a particular country or race is using or not using is ridiculous.

There have been drug busts, rumors, and accusations across the board in this sport now. I've been skeptical about anyone from the Chinese distance runners, to Paula Radcliffe, to Flo-Jo, to Michael Johnson, to Geb, to Lasse Viren, and on & on & on. No country or race is excluded from skepticism from me.

As far as "his tribe" - what was that statement supposed to mean? Or maybe you're just using a hip term for the training group down in Tuscon, AZ?

BDG

Program wrote:

As a matter of interest where was Lagat mainly based during his running career. Who coached him to international level. Was he based in Kenya throughout his career

Lagat improved immensly after he left school and trained with other Kenyans at their famous "camp" in Kenya. You know this already. Get real.

Bill Maher's remark about "tribe" is pretty good.

BDG wrote:

As far as "his tribe" - what was that statement supposed to mean? Or maybe you're just using a hip term for the training group down in Tuscon, AZ?

BDG

I think he's referring to the Kalenjin tribe which produces as much as ninety percent of Kenya's runners in spite of only ten percent of the population.

I'm pretty sure that Jap guy who gobbles down all those hot dogs at Coney Island set his record drug free.