Training in Flats - Give Your Testimonies

I guess that should say "TESTIMONIALS".

Brain fart.

My testimonial: works for me. Feels good, no injuries.

About 3 years ago, I had recurring knee and hamstring problems that wouldn't go away no matter what I tried. I was sidelined on and off for about 3 months. Somebody finally suggested training in flats, and I went for it. 3 years later, I'm doing 90-100 mpw injury-free. The only problems I ran into were a sore achilles and a very mild case of pf for the first month or so. I believe this was just a result of my achilles lengthening slowly to adapt to the lower heel of the flats. It's not for everyone, obviously, but it's worked great for me. If you're coming off a stress fracture, you definitely want to stick to soft surfaces. Other than that, just give it a try. Ease into it, maybe 2-3 days/week at first, to find out if it's something that will work for you.

I like training in flats. I still get injuries but they are different than before. I used to get mostly upper leg injuries (ITBS, Patellar Tendonitis, Patellar tracking issues, etc.) I think that switching has improved my mechanics so that I can avoid these injuries. The only injuries I've had since the switch have been in the lower leg (PF, achilles tendonitis). Both of these injuries were mostly related to stupidly aggressive increases in training load and neither laster very long.

I think flats are especially good for middle distance guys, since they keep you better prepared to run in spikes and up on your toes.

I usually rotate a few pairs, ranging from a heavier, marathon style, to a light, spike style. On the day following a race or speedwork in spikes, I prefer the heavier flats, since the weak link in terms of recovery is usually my calves.

If you want to transition gradually, just do it one pair at a time. Keep a rotation of a couple of pairs. Whenever a pair wears out, just buy a new one that's a little bit lighter. There is a pretty complete continuum of shoes out there, from the most minimal to very supportive, so you shouldn't have to make any huge jumps. Mizuno Precision is a good one to start on.

Orestes,

I have been training in racing flats now for about 3 years. Prior to making a full transition I competed in spikes and racing flats for workouts only and most of my mileage done in regular cushioning/stability shoes. Unlike many average runners, I was already much more efficient with my running form thus the transition went very smoothly. For the first year I only experienced pain in the calves when I went further or faster than my calves could sustain the impact. About a year into the transition I came along the POSE METHOD of running technique. The concept and application for running totally transformed my understanding and execution of running efficiency. If you are going to make the transition I recommend you use the Pose Method technique to insure that you make the transition with the least risk of injury to body. If you choose to go into the transition with your natural or intinctive running ability I recommend you transition slowly from walking barefoot or in minimal shoes for several months. Then start with some short runs building to longer runs. Whether or not you experience overuse injuries will depend upon your bodies adaptation to efficient movement via working with gravity as opposed to fighting against it. Good luck!

Jeremy

www.therunningman.com

I'm interested in this topic as well. I put a couple thousand miles on a pair of Brooks Adrenaline and then got another pair of the same and could barely run in em. I used the old and new pairs intermittently until I could handle the new ones, but even so I was having problems for the first time in fifteen years of running (mostly PF).

A couple questions:

-How many miles do you usually get per pair of flats?

-How should I go about finding the right flat? In the past the only two ways I've bought shoes have been either going to a running shoe store and having the person there watch me run in a few pairs and then trying a few more pairs until something feels right, or buying something I've had before. I'm a bit wary of buying a pair of running shoes without running in them first.

LukeTheRunner wrote: -How should I go about finding the right flat? In the past the only two ways I've bought shoes have been either going to a running shoe store and having the person there watch me run in a few pairs and then trying a few more pairs until something feels right, or buying something I've had before. I'm a bit wary of buying a pair of running shoes without running in them first.

Why not get 'em at the running store? Is the missing piece of the puzzle here that your store doesn't carry flats, or just a few?

Obviously if you can get to a running store with a bigger selection, that's one way. If nothing near you, maybe you're going on vacation some time soon?

For mail order return policy is key. In theory I guess you could order a dozen different models from Zappos with their free return shipping, just keep your favorite of the bunch. And I think with Road Runner Sports, who I'm not crazy about generally, joining their club entitles you to return shoes for up to a month or so (?) even if you've run in 'em.

- - -

In addition to whatever else people contribute to this thread, anyone looking for more can find hundreds of pages of prior discussion about training in flats. Here's one from the "good info" locked thread:

and you can find zillions more with searches like "train flats".

I've probably done this a hundred times, but here it goes again.

I had 7 stress fractures in high school/first year of collegiate running (~got a medical hardship, so did not compete beyond the first year). Wore several different types of orthotics and shoes and had numerous other overuse/nagging pains. I was basically a 19 min. 5K runner because I had never trained consistently for more than 4-5 months due to injuries (mind you, I'm a woman).

4 years ago this coming Dec. (wow, has it been that long?!) I was fed up with being hurt all the time and decided to toss out the orthotics, find a 'basic' shoe (~Asics Onitsuka Ultimate 81's), and work on building foot and leg strength. Did it cold turkey! I started from scratch on the mileage, and progressed it each month (10-20-30-40-50-60->70 mpw after 7 months). I ran painstakingly slooowwwww every day for about 7 months. I added barefoot running after about 3-4 months, and then at 7 months switched to the Puma H Streets. My feet/ankles were 'very sore' for the first 3 months (getting out of bed in the morning, owee!), but I had faith they would get strong and adjust (which they did, and the soreness went away). It was after 7 months of slow running that I started adding in things like strides, progression runs, short/long intervals, fartleks.

Going into that fall, I was a completely new beast, running in the 17's for 5K on the roads, running my first road 10K in 36:22, and my first 15K in 55:46 (all of which I have surpassed since then).

I have continued to stay healthy, progress my mileage each year (~now at 100+ mpw), and most importantly improve and run PRs. I train and race in the same shoes (~rotate between the Puma H Streets and Puma Cortlandt XC flats). I see it as an advantage to train and race in the same shoes because I've developed my body, in terms of muscular strength, proprioception, and economy, to what I race in. This was evident last spring in my first marathon, where I had very little muscular fatigue during and after the race.

To put it simply-- my body feels better in flats. It's a HUGE difference compared to how I felt on a daily basis 5-7 years ago in trainers. I wouldn't say it's solely 'the flats', because there's been lots of things I've done differently. I'm incredibly meticulous about nipping little aches and pains in the bud.... usually this involves a bit of barefoot running, wearing different or new shoes/socks/no socks, massage, or just a good night's rest. I haven't had a minor ache/pain I can't cure with barefoot running (including a whacked back from a bad mattress). I train on a variety of surfaces every day, but feel the most comfortable on roads/asphalt/concrete. I do my long runs (20+ miles) almost all on roads. I focus on lifting, rather than pushing, off the ground.

I don't believe this is for everyone.... it requires a tremendous amount of patience, experience, and committment. Simply understanding how the human body functions and adapts as a whole is important. For example, "Your Achilles is sore?".... take off your shoes and do a little barefoot running! "Your PF is sore?".... stop wearing those clodhoppers at work and get some flexible, low-heeled shoes! It's taking care of these little things that can make a huge difference. Too much, too soon... it's going to bite you! The human body is incredibly logical if we just listen to it and trouble-shoot a problem ASAP. You gotta think long term and let the body adapt and develop as needed.

Well anyways, I ran a 2:48+ marathon debut last spring and am looking to get the sub 2:47 Olympic Trials qualifier this fall. NEVER in my life did I imagine I would be healthy enough to train and run a marathon, let alone be good enough to have a shot at qualifying for the Trials! What a ride (and it's only just beginning ;))....

Doesn't help with knee cap related pain. AT ALL. If you have weak ankles, flat feet, overpronation, do not attempt.

Once more into the breach. Most of my running was done in shoes from the 60's and 70's which were much lower heeled than shoes became in the late 80's. In the early 90's I had a very difficult time with my right knee and it wasn't getting any better. To make a long story short I changed to racing shoes and the knee improved immediately. Whenever I'd go back to traditional trainers the knee would hurt and would stop whenever I went back to tacers.

Now all of my running is in either low heeled racing shoes, cross country flats or retro shoes. I feel awkward and achy in anything else.

I have a theory that beginner runners should train largely in lightweight flats so they don't develop bad habits in their stride and footstrike. Unfortunately I haven't tested it out because I'm not training any beginner runners.

I like to rotate among shoes of various weights throughout the week, depending in part on the type of run, but I don't know whether this has any positive effect on biomechanics and speed, or is just an idea that sounds nice.

I have been running in racing flats since 2004. They work. Most of my injuries have been non-running related after that. I used to have lots of hip, knee and ankle injuries before. But none of that sort after changing.

For me it took about a month to get used to flats. But that was only superficially. When I ran a marathon a few months after, I managed to get sore achilles tendons. (And a tempo run one week after the race killed them. Not very smart...)

Now after a couple of years in racing flats, I still choose my "heavy flats" for long runs. I'll take the lightest shoe pairs to races up to half marathon. After that I'm more careful.

My running form is much better than what it was prior to training in racing flats.

After years of chronic injuries, too many dollars for pt, orthotics, etc., one physio suggested I begin again. So we started with a couple miles a day in flats--jogging, not even running--with supplementary yoga and other lengthen/strengthen exercises. Barefoot running for 10-15 minutes every so often, as I wished.

It was by no means a quick fix. It was probably two years before I was running in flats only. Now, on occasion, and because a vendor gave them to me, I'll run in a standard trainer. But probably 95% of my runs are in flats.

Now I have complete faith in the belief that we run in shoes too "engineered"; that this is one area that science is not really in touch with, or at least, it is being overshadowed by marketing. But I would only suggest to someone that they try it if they ask.

Jag. I lost your email when my last computer melted down. could you email me, i have a girl I would like you to get in touch with

thanks,

HT

When I was a beginning runner, i trained in Tiger Marathons. That was in the 70's. I am still running, but had a lot of problems for several years with all of those "improved" running shoes. Now I am training in old school saucony Jazz (the ones that come in cute colors ) and nike frees. I like the Humara too. h streets, only on sand. 40+ miles a week at my age is ok I guess and the only real problems i have are achilles, but, they have been going bad for 15 years. Any shoe that is beefier hurts my knees and hips, and throws out my SI joints.

You have said it all and said it best! Power to you Jaguar1 and big thanks for sharing all this.I have nothing to add in particular.I very much share your underlying principle of starting from scratch and possibly took it one step further in that I run almost exclusively barefoot.Eventually I might move towards wearing minimal shoes again but right now it is still time to learn how the body works. That is much more rewarding than beating a PR by 30 seconds and the likes. Which, ironically, has come anyway because of the increased awareness while running.I have quoted some of your salient points for emphasis. Shoes or no shoe, high or low mileage, there's the wisdom of practice in your words, as in doing things, trying them out, not just hoping for some pre-confectioned happyness/performance dream so many are trying to sell, so many hoping to buy at an impossible, short-term, OTC bargain.Whoever you are, all the best for your shot at the trials. Go Jaguar1, GO!

jaguar1 wrote:

.... because there's been lots of things I've done differently. I'm incredibly meticulous about nipping little aches and pains in the bud.... usually this involves a bit of barefoot running, wearing different or new shoes/socks/no socks, massage, or just a good night's rest. I haven't had a minor ache/pain I can't cure with barefoot running (including a whacked back from a bad mattress). I train on a variety of surfaces every day, but feel the most comfortable on roads/asphalt/concrete. I do my long runs (20+ miles) almost all on roads. I focus on lifting, rather than pushing, off the ground.

I don't believe this is for everyone.... it requires a tremendous amount of patience, experience, and committment.

What a ride (and it's only just beginning ;))....

So, if one wishes to begin the transition to flats, the advocates here opine that starting at maybe 10 MPW at a very pedestrian pace is the way to go, with an eye on long-term improvement and stronger legs?

Essentially that'd be maybe a mile to 3K every other day in the minimalist footwear, with the intervening days being run in ones' current clunkers; then perhaps adding a mile or so to the flats days and dropping the clunker shoe days to every 3rd day or so with each followig month, using jaguar's protocol?

Interesting concept. I find that, at some stores, flats are less expen$ive. This is worth a shot as, having passed 40 and accumulated some injuries I no longer plan to race further than 10K, I am checking this out.

I've trained almost exclusively in flats (occasionally going to spikes for track or xc workouts) since I began running over 18 years ago. Some are fairly minimal flats, like road racing shoes, and some are not, more bulky like the Kayano and Air Max. I highly recommend going with flats over any alternative (spikes, sandals, boots, basketball shoes, etc.)

Interesting thread wrote: So, if one wishes to begin the transition to flats, the advocates here opine that starting at maybe 10 MPW at a very pedestrian pace is the way to go, with an eye on long-term improvement and stronger legs?

That certainly ain't the only way to do it.

If you're running regularly, you can ease flats into your rotation. You've got a few variables to work with here:

- the flat's degree of minimalism; some folks like to work their way down over quite a while from trainers to lightweight trainers to progressively lighter lower flats, others take a quicker plunge

- how many runs a week you wear the flats vs. your other shoes; if you're tossing some very light flats right into your rotation of beefy trainers start cautiously, different story if you're slowly transitioning to less and less shoe

- which runs: I'm gonna guess some amount of bad press flats receive is because many runners wear 'em only for races and workouts then get injured. Duh. Wear the least protective shoe only for the most stressful, highest impact runs? Maybe not the best idea! I suggest do the exact opposite - start using the flats on short easy/recovery runs. At slow speeds the impact's a lot less, the strain on your achilles and everywhere else... the logical progression from this standpoint is to get your feet and body used to running in flats in this low-stress setting before wearing them in races and workouts.

I didn't have much problem incorporating and moving primarily to light (1) flats. I'm guessing that's in part because I'm pretty efficient but not very fast or powerful, which seems to mean I couldn't hurt my achilles without a circular saw. And in part because I've been wearing calf-stretching foot-strengthening street shoes and sandals for years, like Birkenstocks. What you wear the 23 hours when you're *not* running can make a huge difference. My calves bitch if I spend much time in shoes with significant heels.

(1) But not the lightest. If I try to run too many miles/week in something like the Streak XC, my right forefoot develops a callous that makes running mildly painful. The next step up for me, Fila flats just an ounce heavier, I can run all my mileage in even if it's mostly or entirely on pavement. I think they're really nifty shoes - a combination of light, flexible, cushy, and durable that you just don't find in most flats (I bet Free 3.0 are a close cousin, the 5.0 are except for the high heel). But I've raved enough about them for the year already.