The OFFICIAL Webb Tactics Critique Thread

His tactics were perfect in the final, he just didn't have it in the last 100 meters.

That's pretty much my credo, to live day to day in a state of unboxediness.

I contend that with 300 to go he didn't have it; he looked maxed out and he looked like he wasn't going to be able to maintain that speed for much longer.

When the final video becomes available, compare it to the Paris race that he won and you'll see the difference.

I wouldn't say his problem was tactics.

I would go with mistiming his peak.

Actually I'll put a poll on the front page

What was Alan Webb's biggest problem?

1 Peaking Too Soon

2 Race Tactics

3 His Head (Confidence, Nervousness)

4 Injury/Illness

Should these be the 4 categories? Feel free to add more.

I would go with 1 then 3.

He looked ok in heat 1. But in the semi and final he didn't look good. Thus it can't help his confidence which is #3.

So say he choked or whatever you want but I don't think tactics were his problem. Lagat was right with him most of the way and he now has a gold medal.

Agreed. I thought he had played it perfectly.

Coming off the last turn I was almost pissing myself because it looked like my prediction for who was going to be in the top 4 was going to come true. I said to myself "OK, now Webb's going to bust out his trademark finishing burst, and Lagat and Ramzi will fight for silver.", but then...there was no finishing burst. More like a finishing whimper.

But yeah, IMO Webb's tactics were pretty close to perfect, he just didn't have the strength at the end. Lagat, on the other and...what was his last 300, 39-point? And off a decent pace...he timed his peak perfectly...he's in fantastic form right now.

He ran a perfect race tactically, able to sit in on laps 2 and 3, perfectly placed at 250m out. He had tired legs, slight injury, past his peak, whatever. The man didn't choke, didn't run stupid, he just didn't have that extra amazing gear he had in june/july. So it goes.

Lagat made it look easy. Found his form at the right time. I'd hate to have him on my tail with 400m to go in the 5k final. Go USA!

yeah tactics were fine. he ran a good race to set himself up for the gold, he just didn't have his normal blistering kick in the last 100m. weird to see after a season of him having the most dominant kick in the world (for 1500 runners) he had nothing in the final. i mean he not only didn't move up in the pack at all that last 100 but actually was passed by at least a couple people that have no business outkicking or beating him.

Perhaps he had over-exerted himself in the semis.

He definately had a solid finishing drive there.

That over-exertion on the last lap of his semi combined with general fatigue from the rounds, a big season, and mental stress from all of the above, I think, is the culprit in his lack of finish over the homestretch today.

Orestes wrote:

Agreed. I thought he had played it perfectly.

Coming off the last turn I was almost pissing myself because it looked like my prediction for who was going to be in the top 4 was going to come true. I said to myself "OK, now Webb's going to bust out his trademark finishing burst, and Lagat and Ramzi will fight for silver.", but then...there was no finishing burst. More like a finishing whimper.

But yeah, IMO Webb's tactics were pretty close to perfect, he just didn't have the strength at the end. Lagat, on the other and...what was his last 300, 39-point? And off a decent pace...he timed his peak perfectly...he's in fantastic form right now.

spot on, man. i think your assessment is just right.

i wonder what the cause for it is, though- did he actually have a cold a few days ago? did his minor hamstring injury cut back his training enough to end his peak early? was the season plan not right for a late-august peak? i'm sort of curious. if the Alan Webb from the Paris 1500 or Belgium 800 had showed up, he'd have a medal.

whatever the reasons are, hopefully Raczko and Webb figure them out and remedy them for the Olympics next year. he's physically and tactically capable of winning the Olympics, he just needs to make sure he's capable on the right day.

I haven't had a chance to watch the race yet, however it sounds to me as if he put himself in position to win. Cudos to him for running a courageous race. I'm sure he'll learn from this and improve for the Olympics next year. I think maybe he did peak a few weeks too early, they'll be able to go back and adjust the training for next year.

wejo wrote:

I wouldn't say his problem was tactics.

I would go with mistiming his peak.

Actually I'll put a poll on the front page

What was Alan Webb's biggest problem?

1 Peaking Too Soon

2 Race Tactics

3 His Head (Confidence, Nervousness)

4 Injury/Illness

Should these be the 4 categories? Feel free to add more.

I certainly agree that tactics were not the issue today. Although tactics on Monday probably cost him a few tenths in his kick today. I think it's impossible for us to know whether peaking early was an issue. If he really had a cold, that's more than enough to explain his troubles this week. Either way, after watching the way the season went for Lagat and Ramsi, I'd be willing to bet that he doesn't try to set any records in April next year.

For your poll:

5. He is still not at the level of Lagat or Ramzi when they are all at their best.

Wejo, please don't put up this poll. This guy gets beat up enough on the messageboard. I am sure he is upset with his race. Why kick him while he is down.

I got the poll up on the homepage

I would have to go with #3 - head/confidence.

The likelihood of peaking perfectly is slim - so he, and everyone else, will be somewhat less than 100% on any given day. With this in mind, confidence and poise are big skills that he needs to hone, which only come from experience. Lagat is likely closer to the end of his career than the beginning, and is likely some percent less than his physical peak ... but, he has experience and confidence on his side and has the ability to get it done when it counts, despite being near the twilight of his career.

? wrote:

Wejo, please don't put up this poll. This guy gets beat up enough on the messageboard. I am sure he is upset with his race. Why kick him while he is down.

Yes, imagine how you would feel if you saw your main fan base listing all the reasons why they think you suck. Ritz said in his Flocast interview how much it meant to have people be positive and support him. To have such a negative "survey" regarding the American champion is classless, at least by American runners.

If you have to have a poll regarding this race, can't you think of something positive to encourage and motivate him at a time when he could probably use some friendly support?

Jungleroy59 wrote:

He ran a perfect race tactically, able to sit in on laps 2 and 3, perfectly placed at 250m out. He had tired legs, slight injury, past his peak, whatever. The man didn't choke, didn't run stupid, he just didn't have that extra amazing gear he had in june/july.

It's hard to criticize a guy who, save for the last 100m, had the exact same race as the guy who won. But, this is letsrun.com after all so I'll give it a shot. If Webb was sick, injured, past his peak, etc. then perhaps he should have run a different sort of race. I would have to think that he would know (or at least should have known) if he was on the downside of his peak (or sick or injured or whatever)and may not have had the best kick going in to the race. In that case, I would say he should have done more to push the pace from 400-700 meters. He got out well the first lap but then let the pace slow until the Kenyan took over. If he was injured, sick, past his peak, then he should have known he wouldn't have a kick at the end and should have done more to try and take the kick out of the other guys.

how about an option for bad coaching?

it's obvious that rackzo can get webb to run fast in time-trial conditions, but in reading webb's post-race comments, it doesn't seem like coach or webb had much of a plan for the final. webb says something like, well, i went out in last in the semi and that didn't work, so i figured i'd go out in the lead and that didn't work, as if he was just winging it.

umm, shouldn't he have had a better idea of what he was doing and why his training has prepared him for that? read lagat's comments and see the difference his coach made, in making him calm and giving him confidence in his plan.

imho, there is more to caoching than getting someone to run fast workouts. it's about peaking, coming up with a gameplan, giving your runner confidence, getting him in the best physical and mental state to win.

of course, webb could go on to win olympic gold and have all sorts of medals when he finally retires. but you have to ask the question, with a different coach, would he have been more successful when it really counted? and if he doesn't have the career we expect him too, will his ultimate limitation have been his coach?

The Ritz interview on Flocast was the first thing I thought of when reading wejo's post about the poll. If people have a minute they should watch this:

http://www.flocasts.com/flotrack/coverage.php?c=82&id=4712

These guys are just young men pursuing their dreams. I do understand that this is a fan site and part of that is talking/analyzing/debating racing/tactics/training. But it seems at times it just ends up that our distance runners who are out there trying are just getting shit on by their "fans".

I have listened all summer to talk of Webb peaking too early etc....and really didn't buy it but was concerned that so many knowledgeable people were afraid of that. Now, I think that that is what happened. Every race he ran this spring and summer, except the Pre 2 mile, he dominated and had a kick. He didn't show it in the heat but didn't need it. Needed it in the semi but didn't have it and didn't have it today. He still had a great year and I believe he, and his coach, will take this experience and convert it into Gold next year.