Bingo is my name-o RE: Henry Rono training for masters mile record. PART II 8/7/2007 3:11PM - in reply to the point could be Reply | Return to Index | Report Post the point could be wrote: nice data, good analysis, well written, thank-you, sure not speaking just for meToo bad Living in the Past made up the facts.Living in the Past RE: Henry Rono training for masters mile record. PART II 8/7/2007 3:31PM - in reply to Bingo is my name-o Reply | Return to Index | Report PostToo bad you can't point out any facts that I "made up."milepost 1 RE: Henry Rono training for masters mile record. PART II 8/7/2007 6:36PM - in reply to Henry Rono Reply | Return to Index | Report PostHenry, with all due respect, do you think that rehydrating with milk is such a good idea? Lots of calories there, and you are trying to quench thirst with them, which means maybe you take more calories than your body really needs, because of the thirst. This is what I am thinking, I hope it might help.crazy streaker RE: Henry Rono training for masters mile record. PART II 8/7/2007 6:53PM - in reply to milepost 1 Reply | Return to Index | Report PostGreat job Henry! I check this thread all the time to make sure all is well. Glad things are still going well and I am very excited to see you at camp. Expect a sign at the airport!-KyleHenry Rono RE: Henry Rono training for masters mile record. PART II 8/7/2007 7:12PM - in reply to milepost 1 Reply | Return to Index | Report Post milepost 1 wrote: Henry, with all due respect, do you think that rehydrating with milk is such a good idea? Lots of calories there, and you are trying to quench thirst with them, which means maybe you take more calories than your body really needs, because of the thirst. This is what I am thinking, I hope it might help.The most important thing is the recovery I am looking for.After milk drink I took a cat nap for 90 minutes. I was back to good run in the evening.20 minutes warm up 200mX4:40,39,38 and 37 not too bad plus sauna 15 minutes plus whirlpool 15 minutes plus swimingpool 10 minutes what else do I want.Bingooo game is over.Henrynokaman RE: Henry Rono training for masters mile record. PART II 8/7/2007 8:48PM - in reply to Henry Rono Reply | Return to Index | Report PostAre you drinking whole milk or 2%?the point could be RE: Henry Rono training for masters mile record. PART II 8/8/2007 1:38AM - in reply to Living in the Past Reply | Return to Index | Report PostLiving....: just to drive the point home, can you somewhat source Ovett's quote? I have no reason for not believing you, yet think "Bingo is my name..." could further benefit from it?Making up an accusation is arguably worse than making up a story... Storytelling is at the roots of civilization.Living in the Past RE: Henry Rono training for masters mile record. PART II 8/8/2007 4:39AM - in reply to the point could be Reply | Return to Index | Report PostI'd be happy to provide the source. It is in the fourth paragraph in this link to the Guardian:http://observer.guardian.co.uk/osm/story/0,,337136,00.htmlIt says:"Twelve days later Coe returned to Oslo, his profile hugely boosted, this time to run the Golden Mile, that most famous of Bislett races. Still regarded as essentially a two-lapper, many experts felt he would struggle against a formidable field - one that included compatriot Dave Moorcroft, Irishman Eamonn Coghlan, American Steve Scott and reigning Olympic 1500 metre champion John Walker, who also held the mile world record at the time. (Only Steve Ovett, who declined to race, was missing. He bitterly said that the winner in Oslo would have a 'hollow victory.')."Steve Hoag RE: Henry Rono training for masters mile record. PART II 8/8/2007 6:02AM - in reply to Living in the Past Reply | Return to Index | Report Post Living in the Past wrote: I'd be happy to provide the source. It is in the fourth paragraph in this link to the Guardian:http://observer.guardian.co.uk/osm/story/0,,337136,00.html It says: "Twelve days later Coe returned to Oslo, his profile hugely boosted, this time to run the Golden Mile, that most famous of Bislett races. Still regarded as essentially a two-lapper, many experts felt he would struggle against a formidable field - one that included compatriot Dave Moorcroft, Irishman Eamonn Coghlan, American Steve Scott and reigning Olympic 1500 metre champion John Walker, who also held the mile world record at the time. (Only Steve Ovett, who declined to race, was missing. He bitterly said that the winner in Oslo would have a 'hollow victory.')."Living in the past: Good work on documenting your information and thanks for providing the story. Yes, story-telling is obviously the way we preserve the memories of these great runners. Sometimes, stories do get embellished ( I know that I'm guilty of that because I often like to "live in the past!"), so it's always a good idea to provide a solid basis for the stories, as you have done. Thanks.oh, really? RE: Henry Rono training for masters mile record. PART II 8/8/2007 6:10AM - in reply to Steve Hoag Reply | Return to Index | Report Postand please link to where he "bitterly said" this qoute. :)or is it anothet anti-ovett myth from coe, which in our later day, has become "fact"?Living in the Past RE: Henry Rono training for masters mile record. PART II 8/8/2007 6:13AM - in reply to Steve Hoag Reply | Return to Index | Report PostThanks for your kind words, Steve. You're right that it is always a good idea to provide a source. But frankly, I thought that the "hollow victory" comment was something that every 70s-era runner carried in his memory. There was a Sports Illustrated article on Coe back in August of 1979 that I'm sure you read.In fairness to Ovett, Coe probably did become complicit in the dodging game after they officially became "rivals." Race promoters seemed to prefer fast times over tactical races, and the two runners apparently were happy to play along. But initially, it was Ovett who avoided Coe.Living in the Past RE: Henry Rono training for masters mile record. PART II 8/8/2007 6:23AM - in reply to oh, really? Reply | Return to Index | Report PostThe Sports Illustrated article on Coe had the "hollow victory" comment as well. (I wish I could get my hands on that issue.) In any case, Ovett never denied making the comment, so it must be true. I would imagine that Ovett was being cheeky rather than bitter. But the comment apparently reflected Ovett's attitude at the time. As long as he was undefeated, Ovett could still claim to be number one. And any victory without Ovett being there would be hollow.the point could be RE: Henry Rono training for masters mile record. PART II 8/8/2007 7:18AM - in reply to Living in the Past Reply | Return to Index | Report PostLiving: good posting! History comes alive. Living in the Past wrote: ...Race promoters seemed to prefer fast times over tactical races, and the two runners apparently were happy to play along. All things considered:BEST WISHES TO HENRY RONO: THE RACE MAKERGo Henry, GO!SoCal Pete RE: Henry Rono training for masters mile record. PART II 8/8/2007 7:27AM - in reply to Living in the Past Reply | Return to Index | Report PostOh good God, y'all - okay, Ovett was a chickenshit world record holder and Olympic Gold medalist. He was afraid to race anybody, even though we have video posted of him here racing Henry Rono. But that doesn't count, because instead of treating the race like a fartlek workout, he ran smart, won, and got the WR ... what a loser; much better if he'd run like an idiot, lost, and gotten no record at all. And what was with him winning Olympic and World Cup medals the way he did? I mean, what a loser coward! Employing tactics that guaranteed him world championships at the expense of pleasing a bunch of half-ass no-talents on a running board thread 30 years later.Grow up, people. Ovett was a stud. And yes, he had an attitude. But anyone who didn't appreciate the back and forth WR chase between Coe and him - and their races in the Olympics - missed the boat.You want to call someone a chickenshit, how about all the guys who'd pee themselves if they suddenly found themselves on the start line for any of the numerous races Ovett ran (and won) - starting with some of the big shouldered frauds spouting off here.Living in the Past RE: Henry Rono training for masters mile record. PART II 8/8/2007 7:43AM - in reply to SoCal Pete Reply | Return to Index | Report PostYou're the chicken shit for putting words in my mouth. All I said was that Ovett avoided racing Coe early on, since Ovett had no incentive to put his "king of the hill" status at risk and that his "hollow victory" statement accurately reflected this strategy.Your rant shows that I struck a nerve, and that strongly suggests that my point about Ovett isn't too far off the mark. So thanks for your validation.Steve Hoag RE: Henry Rono training for masters mile record. PART II 8/8/2007 7:46AM - in reply to SoCal Pete Reply | Return to Index | Report PostSoCal: I, for one, never thought Ovett a "chickenshit", only had the greatest respect for him and those other great Brits of the era. His "hollow victory" reference was perhaps a little "cheeky" or arrogant, but certainly doesn't diminish his talent and gutiness. There is nothing wrong with his tactics and racing smart to get the results he did. To me, he always seemed to be the blue-collar "workingman's" racer to Coe's more genteel background. Again that's MY take on the two of them. Both huge,huge talents. This is the opinion of a 4:12 miler, so take it for what it's worth! SoCal Pete wrote: Oh good God, y'all - okay, Ovett was a chickenshit world record holder and Olympic Gold medalist. He was afraid to race anybody, even though we have video posted of him here racing Henry Rono. But that doesn't count, because instead of treating the race like a fartlek workout, he ran smart, won, and got the WR ... what a loser; much better if he'd run like an idiot, lost, and gotten no record at all. And what was with him winning Olympic and World Cup medals the way he did? I mean, what a loser coward! Employing tactics that guaranteed him world championships at the expense of pleasing a bunch of half-ass no-talents on a running board thread 30 years later. Grow up, people. Ovett was a stud. And yes, he had an attitude. But anyone who didn't appreciate the back and forth WR chase between Coe and him - and their races in the Olympics - missed the boat. You want to call someone a chickenshit, how about all the guys who'd pee themselves if they suddenly found themselves on the start line for any of the numerous races Ovett ran (and won) - starting with some of the big shouldered frauds spouting off here.Oh, really? RE: Henry Rono training for masters mile record. PART II 8/8/2007 7:50AM - in reply to Living in the Past Reply | Return to Index | Report PostShow me where Ovett DEFINITELY siad this "hollow victory" remark. Not where someone else said that he said it. (Coe has been shown to be a liar on several occasions.)Jungleroy59 RE: Henry Rono training for masters mile record. PART II 8/8/2007 8:01AM - in reply to SoCal Pete Reply | Return to Index | Report PostThanks Pete. As I said a few pages ago, "Anyone who says Ovett was chickenshit is extremely ignorant of middle distance running history. Extremely ignorant."I guess a few posters are eager to prove that point.I admire what Henry accomplished in 1977-1982, but not at the expense of Steve Ovett. I was born in 1959 and began competitive running in 1973, so Ryun, Keino, Pre, Shorter, Bayi, Walker, Ovett, Coe, and yes, Rono, were my gods. The ignorance of someone to call Ovett chickenshit is just astounding, leaves me nearly speechless.The irony is that some of these same people would be lining up to criticise Webb if he tried an audacious mid-race surge, only to get out-kicked, but they praise Rono (who was probabaly running tired, a couple months past his seasonal peak, and therefore was unable to break Ovett as he very well might have a couple months earlier when he ran his wonderful 3000m WR) while slamming Ovett, who ran a perfect race.Ovett proved himself as one of the best runners of one of the best eras in middle distance running history, a threat to win any race from 800m to marathon. A lot of us prefered Ovett as our working-class crooked-toothed balding hero, to the pretty-boy robotic Coe, but they were both tremendous, inspiring champions (as was Henry), and those superficial differences in persona seem petty and remote thirty years later.Jungleroy59 RE: Henry Rono training for masters mile record. PART II 8/8/2007 8:06AM - in reply to Jungleroy59 Reply | Return to Index | Report Post Jungleroy59 wrote: Ovett proved himself as one of the best runners of one of the best eras in middle distance running history, a threat to win any race from 800m to marathon. Sorry, half-marathon!Harry Phillips RE: Henry Rono training for masters mile record. PART II 8/8/2007 8:06AM - in reply to oh, really? Reply | Return to Index | Report Post oh, really? wrote: and please link to where he "bitterly said" this qoute. :) or is it anothet anti-ovett myth from coe, which in our later day, has become "fact"?Exactly, this article was written in 2000, by Oliver Irish, an author so unknown that his bio shows up nowhere.The British Press isn't known to be reliable in reporting world affairs, can you imagine how unreliable they are reporting 20 year old sports events?Living in the Past RE: Henry Rono training for masters mile record. PART II 8/8/2007 8:13AM - in reply to Oh, really? Reply | Return to Index | Report Post Oh, really? wrote: Show me where Ovett DEFINITELY siad this "hollow victory" remark. Not where someone else said that he said it. (Coe has been shown to be a liar on several occasions.)First of all, Coe is not the source for the statement by Ovett. (And by the way, please provide evidence that Coe is a liar.)If the Guardian link is not definitive enough, how about this one from Time Magazine? This link is to an article written at the time of Coe's race, in July 1979.http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,948501,00.htmlHere is a sentence from the bottom of page one of the article:Ovett had cockily predicted that any winner at Oslo would find victory "hollow," because he was not entered. Afterward, he graciously credited Coe with "a superb piece of work."Harry Phillips RE: Henry Rono training for masters mile record. PART II 8/8/2007 8:14AM - in reply to Jungleroy59 Reply | Return to Index | Report Post Jungleroy59 wrote: The irony is that some of these same people would be lining up to criticise Webb if he tried an audacious mid-race surge, only to get out-kickedThere's nothing ironic here. Webb ran like a fool at the World Championships and ran NOTHING like the way Rono did. There is no analogy to compare the two.the point could be RE: Henry Rono training for masters mile record. PART II 8/8/2007 8:15AM - in reply to SoCal Pete Reply | Return to Index | Report PostSoCal: never said Ovett was a chickenshit. Never endorsed it either. It's just that i have never found winning, just winning, or winning for winning's sake, just to say "n.1" very interesting, rewarding, uplifting, inspiring, enlightening, or even lasting fro that matter... ect. ect...And I nevere said Ovett was not a great runner. Obviously he was. There are many great runners out there, and many to come.It's this all Winning is Everything that just ain't too exciting. That number 1 is everything, or just way, way, more and better than numbers 2, 3, 4 .....I have never found it very exciting that I guy just felt soooooo much better than the opponents he defeated by a fraction of a second, of a yard of a meter, ect...This kind of accuracy is good for machining parts on a lathe. For the Human Spirit, it's minimal.Two men, who are made by their context (rightly so) larger than Life, after a race like that should feel the urge to get to know one another, to become "brothers" of achievement in some way... otherwise it might be just as well who shoots who first.Bang bang pop pop you're dead i am not...the point could be RE: Henry Rono training for masters mile record. PART II 8/8/2007 8:27AM - in reply to Jungleroy59 Reply | Return to Index | Report PostOvett: one of the greatest runners for sure.But who cares what runners look like. These are all projections on people we don't really know intimately, of factors that influence our perception...Indeed petty.Using chickenshit to describe Ovett, speaks for itself.Coe prettyboy? Come on. A smart little elf, but pretty... Jungleroy59 wrote: Ovett proved himself as one of the best runners of one of the best eras in middle distance running history, a threat to win any race from 800m to marathon. A lot of us prefered Ovett as our working-class crooked-toothed balding hero, to the pretty-boy robotic Coe, but they were both tremendous, inspiring champions (as was Henry), and those superficial differences in persona seem petty and remote thirty years later.Living in the Past RE: Henry Rono training for masters mile record. PART II 8/8/2007 8:29AM - in reply to Oh, really? Reply | Return to Index | Report Post Oh, really? wrote: Show me where Ovett DEFINITELY siad this "hollow victory" remark. Not where someone else said that he said it. (Coe has been shown to be a liar on several occasions.)When are you going to provide proof that Coe lied on several occasions? Calling someone a liar without supporting evidence is "chicken shit." So please prove to us that you're not a chicken.Oh, really? RE: Henry Rono training for masters mile record. PART II 8/8/2007 9:12AM - in reply to Living in the Past Reply | Return to Index | Report Post Living in the Past wrote:
Oh, really? wrote:
Show me where Ovett DEFINITELY siad this "hollow victory" remark. Not where someone else said that he said it. (Coe has been shown to be a liar on several occasions.)
When are you going to provide proof that Coe lied on several occasions? Calling someone a liar without supporting evidence is "chicken shit." So please prove to us that you're not a chicken.
Mmmm....let's see:
He cheated on his wife.
He covered up that embarrassing abortion thing.
He said he only ran 50mpw.
He said he did a 10 miler in 45min.
He said that "Ovett was a full time athlete" and he himself wasn't.
He said that Ovett was favoured by UKA and got special treatment.
That's a start.....
Living in the Past
RE: Henry Rono training for masters mile record. PART II 8/8/2007 9:29AM - in reply to Oh, really? Reply | Return to Index | Report Post
You're right, it's a start. The next step would be to provide two sources of documentation for each statement, as I did. Now, please proceed.