Why didn't Krum receive the same praise in 2002 that Webb has received over the last four years?

no you are 100% wrong it is because Krum is BA-LACK

Granted, Krum did have a great year in 2003 (a world championship year). Particularly, that 2:17 1k was nasty. But 2002, by far his best season, was not a championship year.

How is a 1:43.92 not "in the same league" as a 1:43.84?

Krumm

1:43.9

3:31

WORLD INDOOR CHAMPION

Too bad he's black, I was/am a inner city runner and was a fan of his since the days when Webb's coach was criticizing him. It was funny/great to see Krum set a AR in the 1000i a week after Razkco's shit talking.

No, the original poster is completely right.

Krumm's 1500 time came mid-summer in a non-championship year. He didn't win the race, nor was there much talk ahead of time about him going after a fast 1500. He was just having a great season in the 800 and riding a great wave of confidence that led him to a 3:31.93 1500.

He was great that whole summer and carried his success over into the Indoor World Championships where he medaled.

However, his success near the front of the world stage was rather sudden and short-lived. By the time he was becoming more well-known and people were getting excited about him, he was already on the downward spiral.

You're free to believe whatever you want, but it has nothing to do with Krummenackers skin color.

666 wrote:

since the days when Webb's coach was criticizing him.

since who did what now?

OED wrote:

How is a 1:43.92 not "in the same league" as a 1:43.84?

Krumm was an 800 specialist.

Webb is a guy who runs the 800 sometimes.

Webb has a faster time.

Webb looks like he has several years left, Krumm looks like he's close to retiring.

Hope that clears it up.

Commen Cense wrote:

You're free to believe whatever you want, but it has nothing to do with Krummenackers skin color.

I work in marketing/creative direction, I'm a minority, and I'm good at what I do -- at least I like to think I am. Anyway, if I had to choose between Krummenacker (A goddamn World Champion) during his prime or Adam Goucher, guess who I would chose as a rep for middle/long distance track? Hmmmm.... it's just the way it works. A reality in business but of course our PC-ness gets in the way in actual discussion.

--

"Krummenacker is not just about fast times, however. He is doing something that not many male American middle distance runners have done in Europe lately: win. And even in his runner-up races he has been beating the likes of William Chirchir, Laban Rotich, Hezekiel Sepeng and Yuriy Borzakovskiy.

Could this be the same guy that Scott Raczko referred to last winter as not having enough speed to be among the best in the world? Raczko, you might remember, is the coach of Alan Webb, the high school phenomenon who was unfortunately saddled with the sobriquet of "America's Next Great Miler."

I don't think we need to bother with slapping that label on Krummenacker. He's doing quite well without it."

By the way I think Webb is better than Krum, no doubt; but Krum got shafted by the fans.

Objectify It! wrote:

OED wrote:

How is a 1:43.92 not "in the same league" as a 1:43.84?

Krumm was an 800 specialist.

Webb is a guy who runs the 800 sometimes.

Webb has a faster time.

Webb looks like he has several years left, Krumm looks like he's close to retiring.

Hope that clears it up.

The OP said the times themselves were not in the same league ("Now, Krum’s 800 (1:43.92) and 1500 (3:31.93) pr just aren’t in the same league as Webb’s (1:43.84 and 3:30.54)"). He said nothing of the potential of the two athletes. A 1:43.92 is in the same league as a 1:43.84.

An Indoor World Championship doesn't nearly have as much worth as an Outdoor World Championship; just needs to be said.

He didn't do too much after win that either. The outdoor championships were in Paris that summer and he didn't do as well, nor did he in any European races. His time was 2002 and the winter of 02-03.

After his Golden League 800 win and WC medal, people did pay him more attention, though he probably deserved more credit at the time. The thing is, it seemed as if those races were just the START of something big for Krumm, not the peak of his career.

You're absolutely right. I meant to say (or should have said) "coupled together, Krum's PRs aren't in the same league as Webb's." Still, the fact that Webb has a faster PR in his non-specialty race certainly reinforces his superiority as a runner.

Also, I really didn't want this to become an argument about race, but I suppose that it is relevant.

I think it's fair to ask whether the difference is Krum's skin color. You'd have to be blind not to. Look at Meb, Lagat, Krum, Abdi, Khadevis Robinson, Jonathan Johnson - how popular are these guys next to Webb, Ritz, Hall, Solinsky, Rupp, Symmonds, Goucher? Not very. The first group has more Olympic medals and American records than the second group, but the 2nd is like a Letrun dream team.

Why? Could be skin color. Probably is to some degree.

But then why doesn't the board go more crazy for Wariner? Or why are most posters probably crazy about Lebron, Tiger, and Tomlinson? (I know I am - I love to root for those guys).

I have my theories why, and while skin color may be a factor, I don't think the factor is strong enough or virulent enough to be racism.

unbiased observer wrote:

I think it's fair to ask whether the difference is Krum's skin color. You'd have to be blind not to. Look at Meb, Lagat, Krum, Abdi, Khadevis Robinson, Jonathan Johnson - how popular are these guys next to Webb, Ritz, Hall, Solinsky, Rupp, Symmonds, Goucher? Not very. The first group has more Olympic medals and American records than the second group, but the 2nd is like a Letrun dream team.

Why? Could be skin color. Probably is to some degree.

But then why doesn't the board go more crazy for Wariner? Or why are most posters probably crazy about Lebron, Tiger, and Tomlinson? (I know I am - I love to root for those guys).

I have my theories why, and while skin color may be a factor, I don't think the factor is strong enough or virulent enough to be racism.

What about Wariner?!?! He gets a shitload of attention for a board full of LONG DISTANCE runners, are you crazy? How many people talk about Tyson Gay outside of drug accusations.

It's all about the hair.

There were plenty of threads about Gay when he was racing.

His last few races were in crappy conditions in much slower times than he had been running.

There will be more talk about him if he runs well before Worlds and there will be talk of him come Worlds since he has a great chance for double gold. Hopefully some really amazing times too, he hasn't had good conditions much at all this year, even when he has run crazy fast.

666 wrote:What about Wariner?!?! He gets a shitload of attention for a board full of LONG DISTANCE runners, are you crazy? How many people talk about Tyson Gay outside of drug accusations.

Really, you think Wariner gets a lot of attention on this board? I don't. Aside from the attention associated with the whole "he should run the 800" thing, most of his performances are greeted like Gay's, X-man's, Wallace's, and Felix's. "Wow, another world leading time. Ho-hum. Wake me up when they approach the world record."

Regarding Krummenacker, he also took a decent amount of heat for his Olympic Trials performance in '04. If I remember correctly, he ran conservatively in the finals of the 800 and was never competitive for a spot in the top 3, finishing a well-beaten 4th behind Jonathan Johnson, Khadevis Robinson, and Derrick Peterson. Because all 3 of them achieved the A standard in that race, the Olympic team was set, leaving Krummenacker out in the cold.

Three days later, the heats of the 1500 began. Krumm was entered, but chose not to race.

Now... Krummenacker's an adult, and an accomplished athlete. He obviously has the right to choose when and where he'll compete. However:

A) He had never been to the Olympics before, and he was 29 at the time. It's not unheard of for athletes to qualify for the Olympics at the age of 33, but it's also not that common. 2004 was his best, and probably last shot at making an Olympic team. He hasn't broken 1:45 or 3:36 in the 3 years since the Trials.

B) He achieved the Olympic A standard for the 1500 in the Summer of '03, when he ran 3:35.15. Going into the 1500 at the Olympic Trials, the only people with the A standard were Webb, Krumm, and an out-of-shape Grant Robison. Webb won the final, followed by Charlie Gruber and Rob Myers. Gruber achieved the A standard later that summer, but Myers never did. This meant that Robison, who didn't make the final at the U.S. Trials (and finished 8th in his semi) got the third spot on the Olympic Team. If Krumm had run the 1500 heats, advanced to the semis, and beaten Robison, he would have gone to the Olympics, albeit not in his signature event.

Of course, Krummenacker couldn't have known the specifics of exactly which athletes would get the 1500 A standard later that summer, but it was clear to anyone familiar with the qualifying rules that any athlete who had achieved the A standard before the Trials had a good shot of going to the Olympics, regardless of how well they ran at the Trials. This is why Robison made the team even though he didn't make it out of the semis, and even though he didn't run faster than 3:41 during all of 2004.

I understand that Krummenacker was discouraged by what happened in the 800. But if you're 29 years old, and you have a very good chance of making the Olympic team in the 1500, an event in which you've run 3:31.93... how the hell do you turn down that opportunity? It's the Olympics!

unbiased observer wrote:

I think it's fair to ask whether the difference is Krum's skin color. You'd have to be blind not to. Look at Meb, Lagat, Krum, Abdi, Khadevis Robinson, Jonathan Johnson - how popular are these guys next to Webb, Ritz, Hall, Solinsky, Rupp, Symmonds, Goucher? Not very. The first group has more Olympic medals and American records than the second group, but the 2nd is like a Letrun dream team.

You also have to look at the people themselves. The second group are about the ages of the typical letsrun poster; where people ran against them or looked up to them during high school. In addition, Meb, Abdi, Lagat, Robinson were never huge high school stars like the following example group. It wasn't that they were not good, it is just that they didn't have dyestat and letsrun to their advantage. The first three you mentioned were anointed saviors while they were in high school.