Kenny Moore Marathon Training

Question:

If a runner runs 100-120 miles a week for 5 years and runs marathons in the 2:12-18 range then due to injury or work or some other reason drops down to 50 miles a week and runs 2:10 what got him there? Was it the 50 mile weeks that did it? Or the YEARS of higher mileage?

Key Concept: It takes VERY LITTLE to maintain fitness once you have it.

Alan

I agree with what Runningart2004 is saying but i think that the real point of moore's training is the idea of going easy on your easy days and hard on your hard days. If your easy days take away from your ability to do what you want to do on your hard days or effects the quality of your hard days then your easy days are too hard. Now weather you need to do 3 and 3 doubles like more or just run extremely slow for the vast majority of the run like many of the kenyans ect.. well thats for each of us to figure out on our own.

I seem to remember an article in RW back in the early 80's by Benji Durden where he said to throw out all of your 60 minute runs and instead run 30 minutes and 120 minutes on successive days.

Moore was injured constantly in college because he did not take enough recovery days, so after college, in order to become a world-class runner AND avoid injury he had to train like that.

So then, how would you modify this program, if you only planned to race 10K at the longest?

Yank wrote:

So then, how would you modify this program, if you only planned to race 10K at the longest?

This is also what I was wondering.

HRE: Ron Daws was a believer in a 30 mile run after progressing from 22 to 25 mile runs. We did two in prep for Boston, in early March and late March. Ron really believed that they were good for Marathons, but they should not be run very fast. Looking back, I would say 7:00-7:30 when our target race- pace was 5:00-5:20 per mile. The first 30 miler was God-awful, but a few weeks later, the second was easier. That was probably the rationale: get the 30-miler to feel tolerable, so 26.2 felt easier (??). Seemed to work, as I recall my 2:11:54 marathon being relatively comfortable. Of course we did a lot of hill work (up AND down), trying to simulate Boston's later hills. Also, I favored long intervals, such as 10 X Mile in 4:55-5:00 and ladders 440y to 1 mile at sub 5:00 pace. I had a couple of 5-6 mile days thrown in for recovery, so my top mileage was 90. I really feel that for me, anything more than that was counter-productive, causing me to feel tired, sick or get nagging injuries.(Guess I was exempted from Lydiard's required 100+ mileage!) I could never do the mega-mileage that BR, Shorter, Fleming and others could. My mileage worked for me, and that's really what matters, I guess. Interesting that my Marathon PR is very close to Kenny Moore's and we did about the same mileage; actually very similar workouts.

Yank wrote:

So then, how would you modify this program, if you only planned to race 10K at the longest?

I'll let someone more qualified than me answer that. Personally, unless you're injury-prone, I don't think it's necessary to go to the extremes Moore did. Frank Shorter certainly did not subscribe to the 30 mile run. Also, one should keep in mind that Moore was kind of an eccentric, new age-type runner, not a hard-ass killer like Shorter.

runningart-2008, are you training for trials; improving your 2.33? In answering your question, I would say it was the REST that runner in your question has taken that has allowed him to PR 2-8 minutes. Stress + Rest = SuccessThe other side of the question(s) would be how much of that 100-120/wk was a waste of time, money & effort? Also how much of that type of training each year does a marathon need if in fact the 2.10 was delivered after dropping down to 50/wk? Maybe the runner in the above question could have run faster if a better mix or cycle of training was used? Where was the training for power? Too tired from filling the log book I suppose.

Runningart2004 wrote:

Question:

If a runner runs 100-120 miles a week for 5 years and runs marathons in the 2:12-18 range then due to injury or work or some other reason drops down to 50 miles a week and runs 2:10 what got him there? Was it the 50 mile weeks that did it? Or the YEARS of higher mileage?

Key Concept: It takes VERY LITTLE to maintain fitness once you have it.

Alan

Was out of town a couple of days. Glad to see some of the posts on this thread...Could you give us a couple of sample training week's Steve? How often would you run Long (+20) leading up to a goal marathon race?

I thought, in the first Galloway book, Jeff credited some unknown guy who was asking questions at some press conference or Q & A session somewhere?

This guy, if I recall the book correctly, was the one that got the Galloway Program rolling by telling Jeff that he, this unknown, ran beyond 26 miles in training run and avoided high weekly mileage [120-140MPW etc} & that Jeff re-evaluated his training based on this anecdotal info.

I don't recall Kenny Moore's name being associated with it.

No big deal either way.

Since the first Galloway book is being referenced:

To answer the question of scaling down Moore's marathon training to 10K level I believe Galloway's first book or two suggested a 16-18 mile long run one week, varied runs or rest days on the other days, then, in the alternate weeks running 10-20x440 as the tough day while continuing with shorter or rest days.

After reaching 20 reps one would reduce the reps and increase the speed. In a work: periodization. Again the Lydiard influence.

Correct me if I'm wrong, this is from memory:

EX: Pick a race date. Using the first week run a long run of one mile beyond your longest run over the preceding 2 weeks. From that week, add a mile to that long run and do it every other weekend, until you reach 12 miles, then add 2 miles per session until you reach 18 miles.

The week after the long run starts you begin your 400m-440y workouts with a day of 6-8 reps then add two every week until you reach 20 reps. This should be at a pace below your planned race pace. [I believe the long run remains at 18 miles, then drops when you begin reducing the quantity of your 400m workouts, someone can correct that, I am sure.] Every week from that 20-rep week you would drop 2 reps and increase the speed until the week of your goal race at which you should be down to 6 reps at faster than race pace.

Great thread.

Runningart2004 wrote:

Question:

If a runner runs 100-120 miles a week for 5 years and runs marathons in the 2:12-18 range then due to injury or work or some other reason drops down to 50 miles a week and runs 2:10 what got him there? Was it the 50 mile weeks that did it? Or the YEARS of higher mileage?

Alan

Easy answer. Both ! One with the other.