no, not trying to say that the guys that ran slow got screwed. they screwed themselves. but what could be going through these guys minds with less of a kick when they run through the first mile over 5:00 at then dont speed up? What kind of coaching did they have?
It is shameful for someone (especially an at'large bid) to go run so slowly (realitively) at the ncaa championship.
I think everyone is looking at this the wrong way. Everyone knows in advance what PLACE it is going to take to qualify. These are Team scored meets. In the end, you are chasing points for your TEAM. Whether you run 13 or 20 minutes for 5k doesn't matter. All that matters is qualifying for the show and placing as high as possible, for your team, in that final. Did we all forget what it says on our singlets? That's who you're running for, who you're representing.
Think! wrote:
I think everyone is looking at this the wrong way. Everyone knows in advance what PLACE it is going to take to qualify. These are Team scored meets. In the end, you are chasing points for your TEAM. Whether you run 13 or 20 minutes for 5k doesn't matter. All that matters is qualifying for the show and placing as high as possible, for your team, in that final. Did we all forget what it says on our singlets? That's who you're running for, who you're representing.
I agree with you if this is conference, but not a lot of these guys teams are anywhere close to a podium spot. Maybe I'm wrong here, but looking at the results, Strang seems to be the only one on a team that actually has a chance to win...and he blew it. Seems to me if Strang was running for his team he would have sacked up, taken it hard and made sure he made that final.
They obviously need to run both sections at the exact same time, but on different tracks. This is the only fair way to do it!
How can you not think that everyone who goes out really slow in a tactical race believes that they have the kick to make it out (if not win outright)? In the Olympic final that Cacho won, they went out in 2:07.
Yes, they all thought they could win in a kick.
The second heat occasionally benefits from knowing what the times to beat from the first heat are, but all the runners in the first heat are not clueless about what is a good enough time to put pressure on the second heat. If the first heat runners let the pace dawdle, then that is their own risk. As mentioned earlier, there are plenty of times when the first heat sends more runners on. The process is fine the way it is.
On a thread I saw elsewhere they said Strang had q\'ed for the finals because he had to hurdle Hower after he fell, and successfully appealed. Not sure if that\'s confirmed/true.
After watching Bekele try to win the Olympic 5K by outkicking El G on the last lap of a slow race, I am convinced that even the best runners in the world can overestimate their kicking ability.McD wrote:
realfan144 wrote:Most runners have a big ego and they all think that their kick is the best. Most can't accept that others' kicks are better.
I don't buy that. Everyone racing at that level is well aware of their own capabilities.
Strang... wrote:
On a thread I saw elsewhere they said Strang had q'ed for the finals because he had to hurdle Hower after he fell, and successfully appealed. Not sure if that's confirmed/true.
Yeah, I just saw that two and was coming in here to post it. Well there goes my first post...
McD wrote:
realfan144 wrote:Most runners have a big ego and they all think that their kick is the best. Most can't accept that others' kicks are better.
I don't buy that. Everyone racing at that level is well aware of their own capabilities.
After watching Bekele try to win the Olympic 5K by outkicking El G on the last lap of a slow race, I am convinced that even the best runners in the world can overestimate their kicking ability.
too*
what is wrong with you peoplE? wrote:
but what could be going through these guys minds with less of a kick when they run through the first mile over 5:00 at then dont speed up? What kind of coaching did they have?
It is shameful for someone (especially an at'large bid) to go run so slowly (realitively) at the ncaa championship.
This argument really oversimplifies the situation. You make it sound like a lower seed could take the lead and drop enough people that a kick would be irrelevant. That's often just as unlikely as a weak kicker making it in at 14:30 pace.
Say one of the lower seeds in that first heat decides to take it over after a slow first 800. Say he runs 67s. Who do you think he's going to drop? Nobody. Maybe one guy who's sick or past his peak. (In the faster heat, 12 of 13 were still there with a lap to go.) So, a lower seed can lead the whole race at PR pace (tough enough to do) and still find himself needing to outkick a couple guys to get in. And having led for 2+ miles at PR pace will do wonders for whatever kick he has. And the other heat still has a chance to take time qualifiers.
And one thing he knows WON'T happen after he starts running 67s is somebody else taking it over. He'll lead it until he slows or until the last kilometer.
Of course, sometimes it can be sound strategy for a lower seed to take the pace. But it's hardly stupid not to. Often, it's the best choice--take your chances that somebody else will take the pace, or just take your chances with your weak kick, or try to push the pace 1000m out. None are very good options--it's tough being a low seed.
I agree that qualifying in distance races should emphasize place, with few or no time qualifiers. Time qualifiers don't "keep people honest" (if they did, we wouldn't be having this conversation--both 5K heats would have been under 14:00). Furthermore, the vast majority of time qualifiers benefit from some other poor sap who did the work. They just got lucky to be in the faster heat. Better if everyone knows exactly what place they need to advance.
What about having an auto mark like in the field events, to give the first heat athletes the same "information" that the second heat gets. Set it at 13:55 or something and take the top 7 in each heat and anyone else that gets the auto.
reformer wrote:
What about having an auto mark like in the field events, to give the first heat athletes the same "information" that the second heat gets. Set it at 13:55 or something and take the top 7 in each heat and anyone else that gets the auto.
All this is is a time trial. Everyone could, in theory, make it into the final, thus a very large final and meaning the prelims did nothing.
or.....they could quarentine the 2nd heat and not tell them the first heats times!!!!
They use the same type of system at Worlds and the Olympics so the athletes might as well get use to it. Personally as a fan, I find it more interesting to know what athlete/time is on the bubble to get to the next round.