Clarfiying Van Aaken

I don't think you want to split the hair too finely here. you have to remember that he wrote about running for about thirty years and there was going to be some changes to his thinking.

His recommendation for tempo work each day was quite short, something like one 400-600 meter run at race pace or something like 6-8x60 meters done at the end of an endurance run. If you wanted to adhere rigidly to that formula you'd probably do a session like 3x1000, if you want 1000's, then work out what you'd need for the rest of your week.

If you get hold of Manfred Steffney's "Marathoning" there are some samples of Christa Wahlensiek's training and off the top of my head, I don't recall it adhereing strictly to a 20:1 ratio. Also, if you looked at some early van Aaken, i.e. training he had people doing in the 50's, you'll see an extensive amount of track work, but it was slower trackwork than most people were doing at the time. But if we looked at it now we'd never say that there was anything like a 20:1 ratio of tempo work to endurance work. It might have been clsoer to 11:10 or some such thing.

"and there WERE" going to be ..."

From what I've read, Van Aaken thought the tempo (race pace) to easy running ratio should, at most, be 1:20 (or 5%). The other limit of his range is 1:30. Also, he feels it plays such a small part in the overall development of the runner that it really need not be emphasized.

I've browsed Manfred Steffny's book, Marathoning, and I don't see much concordance with Van Aaken (despite his being Van Aaken trained back in the day).

Now, where I think there is significant confusion or misinterpretation of his ideas is the notion easy running should consist only of jogging or the easiest pace. He does hold that that the easiest, most comfortable running, should persist for 2-3 years, but after that one does more up-tempo work. He gives examples in his book, but the typical approach is his "classical intervals." Essentially, running faster (but not hard) followed by walking or jogging. Examples would be repeats of 2000m about 2-3 min. (or thereabouts) slower than best pace. He also considers 3000m and 5000m repeats. But, none of these are at close to race pace and are more like up tempo portions broken up by jogging and walking. If I had my copy of The Van Aaken Method in front me, I could reference the specific pages in which he describes this training.

EVA really saw training as an art not a science. I heard him say several times that two parts of hydrogen and one part oxygen makes water anywhere, but if I give two runners the same workout one will do well and the other may not. I think he only came up with the %'s when someone asked him about amounts. I never tried to look up and see how much time was spent at each level, but I know that a very large % was easy running. What I took away was that he felt- that "endurance was what makes the runner". As I read this he felt that anyone has the speed to run an 80 second 400 and most have the endurance to run for 42km, however only by running lots of distance will you obtain the stamia to run at 80 seconds for 42km. We did speed (several sprints) and every run finished up with a pickup (supposed to be no faster than race pace, but at times it got away from us as we raced each other). He made it a very simple process. Why carry excess weight? It will slow you down. Eat only what is needed. Does anyone put soda in your car? He used to eat "junk" food, but never in excess. How much sleep do we really need? I still get by on 4-5 hours a night- but it is total sleep. When I lay down I am asleep within three minutes. EVA did not try to make a statement about how to become the best possible runner, but instead how anyone of us can reach a level that many only though possible for the elites. Yes in the 60's and 70's when he told us that runners will be running 2:05 we laughted- many of us viewed Derek Clayton with awe. Must end here, just wanted to chime in with my 2 cents worth. Too bad he was not still around to set us straight.

Vladimir,

Thanks for the input. I appreciated your comments on the prior EVA threads.

If I could ask anything, did the pickups at the end of runs comprise the majority of your weekly tempo, or race pace, work?

Please don't forget the formula that EVA used in doing tempo work. I read that he used mile race pace, plus one minute.

Ex. 5 minute miler = 6 minutes during tempo work. 4 minute miler = 5 minutes during tempo training.

If this is redundant forgive me, I didn't read all of this closely.

Without digging up my old training logs I would have to say that we seldom did scheduled tempo runs. However we always ended the sessions with a pickup. In the weeks leading up to an important race we would do some pace work. Nothing outragous (usually something like 5 x 5k @MP- 3:00 walk between). For the longer races we seemed to never do the entire total distance at a tempo pace), but usually between 1/2- 3/4. This was done more to know the race pace. He seemed worried about going out too fast and dying more than going out too slow and falling behind your scheduled time. We also always had a window we were shooting at- for example I started out shooting for 2:20 - knowing that if things went well I would hit 2:18 and poorly 2:22. Then our pace would be set at 2:20 where we were supposed to stay for at least the first 2/3 before trying to increase the pace. Yes this will never allow for some great one race improvement, but it never resulted in a total wash out. Hope this helps.

This is what I\'ve been doing, based on Van Aaken\'s book:

After my easy runs (usually 60 or 90mins) I do one of the following, each one once a week:

3x300 @3K pace

2x500 @5K pace

1x1000 @10K pace

10x100 strides (I guess this one came from Lydiard)

I like to do them after my run, with a small break, instead of going straight into it. I\'ve been doing this for awhile and I think I may drop the paces down so it\'s 1000m @5k pace instead of 10k, etc.

Vladamir, did you ever do the 5 times a day workouts that equal 40K a day that he outlines in the \"training for the future\" chapter of his book? I think I\'m going to try this some and see what happens.

We did what was termed as a hell week twice under him. In this week you get up and run for an hour (no concern as to pace)- upon the finish you rest (lie down) for an hour. this is repeated 7 times. So you run at 6am; 8am; 10am; noon; 2pm; 4pm; 6pm then you rest until the next day. This was repeated for a week. Pace is very slow (for me I covered around a 10k each hour the pace was not the concern-it was being on your feet). This probably did little for me physically, but mentally it was great. Prior to the first time, I had times when I would be putting off my run "too hot, too cold, too dark, too tired, etc" on many of these I felt better once I got out there. This workout showed me that you can run on automatic pilot. This can be done by anyone as I remember talking to Paul Reese about his run across the USA and he told me of an Englishman (I think his name was Citrow - or something like that). He also did some long runs which were more like long walks- no prep just did it. Only thing I would change is I would have eaten better during the hour off. We ate little if anything until the end, but did consume lots of liquids (mostly water)- there were no gels, powerbars, etc. I think that the teachings of JK are very much like those of EVA. Running for time instead of distance will allow you to not be so concerned about how fast you are going.

Vladimir, the 5 x 5k at Marathon Pace (I'm assuming that was what MP stood for) sounds like a tough workout given that you only had 3 min. walks between reps - hardly enough time for full recoveries. How many of these sessions did you do? Did you build up to them, starting with 1or2 x 5K and progressing to 5x?

Chuckster, how long have you been using your Van Aaken style training? Have you noticed an improvement in race performances?

Vladamir: I think I may try the 7 x 1hr thing...it may end up being mostly walking, but it sounds like great training for an ultra marathon

JonDCH: I started using Van Aakens style a few years ago in college when I had shin splints, and instead of taking time off or cross training I just ran and took walk breaks every few minutes (before my shins would start hurting). This led to 3 PRS in a row (maybe I was rested up from not running hard).

Now that it's post college I'm not training with a coach so I've been using a combination of Lydiards mileage and effort charts combined with Jack Daniels paces from his book, and whatever I can learn from Van aaken.

I recently PR'ed in a 10K road race that I've done every year for 10 years by 39 seconds (I wasn't sure I could even come close to my time from college), so it seems to be working.

Also I should note that instead of trying to run high mileage every week, I normally run 3-4 weeks and then take an easy week, where I only workout once a day, either run or cross train. I think keeps me from burning out or getting injured, and I can probably train harder in the block of hard weeks than I could if I just trained hard every week.

If 3-5 weeks out you cannot run 25k with breaks at your marathon pace - perhaps the expected pace is too fast. If you bring it down to the miler you will see that it would be very much like asking a 4:00 miler to run five repeat 200@:30. The entire workout is to gain pace. I read once where Rod Daws ran 26 x 1 mile at 5:40 to learn pace for a marathon (back when a 2:30 was trials time). I do not remember how many we did (I think it was about three in the four months leading up to our race). I do not remember any build up more of today we are doing XXX.

Vladamir, did you ever manage to dig out your old training journals?

My house is a mess. I have training logs going back to 1964, until recently I also had every RW/Distance Running News, Long Distance Log issue. My wife wants me to throw it all away. I usually start cleaning and start reading, next thing I know I am reading results from 1966. So the answer is not yet. Sorry.

If you ever give in to your wife and decide to dump your Long distance Logs and DRNs, please let me know. I'll buy them from you.

If that happens we will have a bidding war, HRE!

I have been training using Van Aaken type training since I first read his book back in 1980...my training back then (after reading the book) was to run to and from work, about 5 miles and every other day would get up early and run a 2 hour route to work. All of my running was at a very easy conversational pace and was always wary of EVA's 130-150 HR rule. My run home would end with a "stretching out the legs" pickup run and that was about it. The only other thing I did was run a local 2.5 mile race every Saturday morning and would run the 5 miles to and from that for my training that day. Then on Sunday would go into the local forest and run for 3-4 hours on trails very slowly with walking breaks. Maybe 100 mpw, but never really kept track of it.

On this training i was able to run a 4:55 mile and a 2:49 marathon. It was a nice range...my best race on this training (I think) was a 1:16:08 half marathon and one of those 2.5 mile races I ran 13:06.

So this training does work, but you need to be patient. I have been training using his methods now for almost 30 years, am 55 years old and still race at or near the top of my age group in (now) ultramarathons. I still run in the 70 mpw range, all comfortable running with a daily pickup near the end, some near 2 miles long, some longer some shorter, it all depends on how I feel that day.

Excellent discussion, am always glad to see Dr. Van Aaken mentioned on this board because I know it will bring VLADIMIR out ;-)

I ran across George Beinhorn, the editor , of the book, "The Van Aaken Method" on another site recently. I complemented him on his work and he told me that Joe Henderson deserved the lion's share of the credit for that book. George also mentioned that he did not follow many of EvA's ideas at that time, but did use many of his ideas many years later.

I am always impressed with athletes, coaches, authors, etc. that continue to run into their "Golden Years" and van Aaken certainly did that until his unfortunate accident.

Only because she does not read this page I can say the following "she will probably go before the books" and I say that knowing that she is the love of my life.