Dura-Ace or Record? Which is better?
Dura-Ace or Record? Which is better?
Is price an issue? Dura Ace has better bang for the buck, but I think on the whole the record set is lighter. Have you used both sets of shifters? The feel is quite different and should be considered when purchasing either group.
Are you that serious of a rider that you need with group? The ultegra / chorus level of components are still very high quality and are hundreds of dollars less. You could take that savings and invest it in a nicer wheelset (saving weight in the rim is better than any where else due to rotational forces).
I agree with the above post. I personally prefer Campy, and Chorus is the workhorse level component. Most of the reason is that I never really liked the STI shifters from Shimano as I always feel like they're running away from me while I'm trying to brake.
I do have Dura-Ace on my current bike, and had Record previously. Shimano is the better value, but for me the Campagnolo is simply better if money is no object.
JMo wrote:
Are you that serious of a rider that you need with group?
No. I can afford it, perhaps the most important variable here.
Looking at a Merlin, just to let you know where I'm coming from.
Gearheads wrote:
No. I can afford it, perhaps the most important variable here.
Are you building this bike from the ground-up, or just looking to upgrade what you already have? Do you have a budget in mind? I have built bikes from scratch several times and have found that you can get a fully custom, very high-end bike for a lot less money.
As you can read from my handle, I am a Man of Science; I prefer Shimano for my own bikes and in general as a company. Their combination of innovation and overall quality are rivalled by none in the bike industry. If you are looking for the best gruppo for shifting performance, especially from chainring to chainring, look no further. Ergonomics, price, and availability are all factors weighing heavily in their favor.
However, I would be remiss if I were to ignore the advantages of the Campagnolo system.
1: The complete gruppo is lighter.
2: Aesthetically superior. Like I said, I use Shimano, but Campy almost always looks better on the bike. The tasteful use of carbon fiber, the all-black finish, and the hidden cables generally add a few beauty points.
3: Of dubious advantage, but true. Campy shifters are rebuildable, and all the parts are available through major distributors. This is a double-edged blade however; they WILL wear out much quicker than Shimano, and require this rebuilding service in much less time than it takes for an STI lever to start acting up.
JMo wrote:Are you building this bike from the ground-up,Yes. Budget 5-6k seems outrageous, but I'll do it anyway.
I've run Record and Dura Ace and I'll take the Campy any day. The shifts are smoother and more precise. The hoods are more comfortable. And you can run up to the base of a big climb in the big ring and then drop-shift both shifters simultaneously. Then you don't lose as much power and lose focus going through gears. Campy all the way.
What is your timeframe for building this bike? The last time I went through this exercise it took me 2-3 months, but I ended with a bike that cost ~$2500 and weighed-in at 16.2 pounds in a fully rideable condition. For that amount of money at the time you couldn't buy a bike anywhere near that light. I personally went with a Cannondale frame, but obviously the Merlin frame is very similar in terms of stiffness, weight, etc. and may even be a bit better since they use titanium rather than aluminum. There are obviously lots of elements to a bike, but I focused my time and money on the frame / fork, and the wheelset followed closely by the group. Just for the record, I used dura ace on that bike.
I have to disagree with man of science, a bit here. The Shimano levers are not more advanced, just different. For example, on the shimano levers to switch three gears you need to press and release the lever three times. On the Campy system the harder and further you push, the more gears that you shift. Once you get used to it, the campy setup allows for faster shifting.
Yes, I'm getting the idea I should have started this project back in January. It's not as simple as going to a bike shop and walking out with the perfect bike is it?
Its not, but at the same time, you can get this done in a few weeks without blowing the budget. I took a very long time which allowed me to wait for great deals (I purchased a lot of stuff from a bike shop that was going out of business). Still, shop around, and you can make a great bike. Have you given much thought to the wheelset? That will come into play at least in part with your decision of components.
If you are going high-end american frame you should maybe look at some fancy bespoke american components. When it comes to engineering I'm sure you will be able match anything the rest of the world can offer.
Whether or not it will ooze pedigree like a Colnago with Record Campy, well thats another matter...
I'd love to be in your position that's for sure. Good luck!
what about Scram Force, much better thatn shimano on every level
Campy and Shimano are both great. One thing to know is the the ONLY difference between chorus and record is weight. So i mean if you want the best by all means, but you should know that record does not work any better or last any longer than chorus.
2nd- Shimano feels smoother because less spring tension activates a shift. But that also means that its finicky. Internal housing can be a pain with shimano, Campagnolo shifts are harder to activate but it doesnt come out of adjustment as quickly as shimano does. Of course adjusting a shimano or a campy derailleur is a simple matter but we splicing hairs here anyway.
3rd- The biggest different between campy and shimano really is the hoods. Honestly the rest is just splitting hairs. But some people just HATE campy hoods and others love them. If you are riding on the bunch on campy and have to slam the brakes from the hoods, campy can feel insecure, like your hands will slide off, where has shimano has a wall of shift lever to brace your hands.
4th- Campy's new crank design is in my opinion, superior to dura-ace, dura ace cranks have an incredible amount of friction, campy's new crank design puts to rest one of the longest running criticisms of campy which stuck to a square taper spindle for so long.
Why a titanium bike anyway? Most frames offer lifetime guarantees so durability doesn't really seem to be a real issue, titanium is heavier, flexier, and the ride quality while excellent, is on par with the best carbon frames that can offer stiffness and light weight at the same time. Are you getting a custom frame?
As much as people hate to admit it. People in Taiwan know what they are doing. They make a lot of bikes.
bike g wrote:
Why a titanium bike anyway? Most frames offer lifetime guarantees so durability doesn't really seem to be a real issue, titanium is heavier, flexier, and the ride quality while excellent, is on par with the best carbon frames that can offer stiffness and light weight at the same time. Are you getting a custom frame?
What do you feel are the best frames/materials?
Neither.
There's now a third option for road groups-- SRAM. Force shifters are lighter than either Record or DuraAce. The whole Force group is pretty fantastic (and if you don't believe me, flip through any bicycle magazine, or look at cyclingnews.com-- tons of reviewers have raved)
SRAM is a US company, too, if that matters to you.
Steel= traditional blend of stiffnes and flex
Aluminum and Carbon= light, stiff and efficient, too stiff for some.
Ti= Depends on the tube set, does tend to be flexier, can be very light, or stiff and heavy.
The reason I build my own bikes is that I like to pick componenets, I do not use whole groups. If I had to pick a group I would go Campy or SRAM Force
I also like SRAM components. I definately prefer Stronglight or SRAM carbon cranks over Campagnolo and Shimano. Extralight components are very cool too.
http://www.extralite.com/index.htm
a great source for cool and unusual components is Fair Wheel Bikes.