Jason Hartmann ran Chicago with splits of just under 66 and just under 70. This fade was attributed to his inexperience. Ritz faded even more and Torres faded to obscurity. The brain trust decided that this was a good experience because of what they learned. They went back and made what they felt were the necessary corrections. Hartmann was the test. IT FAILED. Jason was a DNF. It is fairly obvious that this group of athletes need to look in another direction when it comes to the marathon.
Should Ryan Hall have left his coach last year when he had some bad races? Hmmmm, where would he be now if he did. By the way, how have the athletes done who have "moved on" from the "group" done?
Great career wrote:
Jason Hartmann ran Chicago with splits of just under 66 and just under 70. This fade was attributed to his inexperience. Ritz faded even more and Torres faded to obscurity. The brain trust decided that this was a good experience because of what they learned. They went back and made what they felt were the necessary corrections. Hartmann was the test. IT FAILED. Jason was a DNF. It is fairly obvious that this group of athletes need to look in another direction when it comes to the marathon.
what do you have against this Colorado group?
do you know how many championships those guys have won as members in that group?
I don't, fill me in.
Hudson is conducting a clinic on how to take top guys and make them slower, not a few bad races. Brad Hudson is possibly the worse coach on this planet with the most talent to coach!!
I am only talking about the marathon. There are several good 5k-10k coaches. There are very few that understand the marathon.
"The course of the struggle goes not necessarily to our advantage."
-Emperor Hirohito on the last day of WWII
Dathan Ritzenhein:
1st Place, 2006 USA 10k Champs
3rd Place, 2006 Outdoor Track and Field Champs 5000 Final
4th Place, 2006 USA Cross Country Nationals Long Course
3rd Place, 2007 USA Cross Country Nationals
11th Place, 2006 ING New York Marathon
Jorge Torres
1st Place, 2006 Outdoor Track and Field Champs 10000m
2nd Place, 2006 USA Cross Country Nationals Long Course
4th Place, 2006 USA Cross Country Nationals Short Course
4th Place, 2007 USA Cross Country Nationals
Jason Hartmann
2nd USA Half-Marathon Champs
Brad is doin a wonderful job. JUST NOT IN THE MARATHON. Before someone says give him time. I don't believe his current athletes should have to wait or be his guinea pigs.
So, that would be 2 championship wins (it's actually 3, you left out the year DR won long course US xc, the year that Webb tried to go with him and DNFed). One of them came against a weak field. They're all US champs, they've done nothing on the world stage, never a threat to be within even 2 places of a medal.
Dathan has consecutively finished further back and slower in the Cross Race in Ireland in January over the last 3 years. Hudson directly stated two days before US Cross Nationals this year that Jason Hartman was in the shape of his life, "top five" for sure and a great marathon at London! What the F... Ever Brad!When you speak of Torres progress, make sure his being beaten by a 35 year old man at Cross and Salazar's Science Project do not show Torres improving, actually his 7th place in the 8k is by far the lowest finish for Jorge at a US Championship and Fam was the only top dog there. Hartman was 2nd at the half in his first year under Brad and was not there this year. You just proved that Brad does indeed have the most talent. Ryan Hall is now more likely to make the Olympic Team in the Marathon than Ritz, what? Who knew! How many Justin Young's and Clint Wells have to walk away from Brad before the picture is realize that he has absolutely NO CLUE!! Ryan Hall has made a progression under Terrance as has many of the kids in Minnesota and Oregon, but not in Boulder. You guys defend him as you like, but Hall, Fam, and Culpepper will take Olympic Team spots prior to anyone from Hudson's group, you can write that shit down. Fam trains himself and can whip any of Brad's guys anytime he wants at any distance up to half marathon! Hall, heck no competition, this was obvious at the 2006 Cross 12, when Hall conducted a Clinic on Hartman and Ritz. Oh, then there is Culpepper's clinic back in February of 2007, where he whipped the whole group by what, "running the smart-conservative race!" Best of luck to those guys, but to run for Brad because he is the only coach with a group in Boulder is self destructive!
Yeah but was DR with Hudson that year when he won the USA xc long course?
Ok, so it is a good job coaching if the American Collegiate debut record and outright record holder who went pro early wins a road race nobody his level runs and wins a Cross Title under his college coach, not Brad? Puzzling? Ritz should have 5-6 titles by now as the least and be a sub 2:10 marathoner, but his guidance is poor and his coaching is even more pathetic. For Ryan Hall to be better at every event from 5k to marathon than Dathan is unacceptable based on 27:39 first time 5k for Dathan. Justify this shit if you want but Ritz and Torres are the last two Americans to win NCAA Cross Titles, which means, like Kennedy and Goucher, they should be a contender for every single US Championship in which they compete and win 30% of the time!
Dathan won the Ireland Race with Wetmore, zero top 2 finishes in 2 ties with Brad. 27:39 with Wetmore debut and 27:35 under Hudson, what a huge improvement. Oh, 12k Cross title under Wetmore, Zero under Brad Hudson. - There is a distinct PATTERN, Not Imagination here!!
Hartmann has the talent to be every bit as good as Cabada or Bizuneh have become with Simmons. Jorge Torres and Ritz have the talent to be even better than that, at least as good as Hall has become as a post-collegian (even if Stanford held Hall back). Everyone currently in the BPTG has to have met people who used to be in it yet left, did they never ask the right questions of these people to find out why there has been such high turnover?
Ritzenhein ran nearly a minute faster in Belfast the second year he ran there. He got 3rd instead of 1st, but the runners he was racing were better runners than the previous year's and he still ran nearly a minute faster. Ritzenhein is not getting consistently slower like people keep implying. He ran half a track season last year, running PR's of 13:16, 13:17 and 27:35. He just never had any good consistent healthy training until then. His whole thing is just staying injury free. As for Torres, I don't know why he has seemingly been underperforming lately, although he faired well at cross nationals. And Hartmann just isn't nearly the same caliber athlete as Torres or Ritzenhein. I think Hartmann would probably benefit more from running with a group like Hansons, where there are more runners who run his pace as opposed to risking trying to run with guys who run faster for ever distance. Hartmann's really only good training partner is Ed Torres.
irun wrote:
Ritzenhein ran nearly a minute faster in Belfast the second year he ran there. He got 3rd instead of 1st, but the runners he was racing were better runners than the previous year's and he still ran nearly a minute faster. Ritzenhein is not getting consistently slower like people keep implying.
Well, if he isn't then the first two sentences do nothing to prove it. If he was 1st then it could stand to reason that he wasn't pushed very hard by lesser competitors and was pushed a lot harder by much better competition the year he ran faster.
He ran half a track season last year, running PR's of 13:16, 13:17 and 27:35. He just never had any good consistent healthy training until then.
Since US XC this year, how has that "consistent healthy training" thing been going?
His whole thing is just staying injury free.
Which has little or nothing to do with his coaching?
As for Torres, I don't know why he has seemingly been underperforming lately, although he faired well at cross nationals.
He did not FARE well, he should have beat both Culpepper and Goucher and should have beat Ritz considering the dopey race strategy Ritz employed.
And Hartmann just isn't nearly the same caliber athlete as Torres or Ritzenhein. I think Hartmann would probably benefit more from running with a group like Hansons, where there are more runners who run his pace as opposed to risking trying to run with guys who run faster for ever distance. Hartmann's really only good training partner is Ed Torres.
Hartmann is more talented than Ed Torres, he's closer to Ritz and Jorge than he is to Ed and could be as good as Dobson or Bizuneh or Cabada with the right coaching. You're right about Hansons, it would probably be a better situation. He should cut ties with Dathan that are dragging his performances down.
What is Reality? wrote:
Fam trains himself and can whip any of Brad's guys anytime he wants at any distance up to half marathon!
you negative bashers are so full of shit.
fam DOES NOT train himself. he trains BY HIMSELF in new york, but his coach is still the coach at tennessee.
and, please tell me, what is EXACTLY WRONG with hudson's methods? or are you just talking out of your ass because you THINK you could have ritz running 2:05 by now??
hmmm??
The list is much longer than those two who left. Last time it was posted the entire thread got deleted in an hou. A lot of people ask what these guys and girls have done since, and some of them have faired ok, some disappeared from the scene, but the point is they did NOT do well in the program. they became disenchanted as the spell wore off, and they walked. Young has a OT marathon qualifier from Chicago. Compare his time to Ed's. Wells will no doubt roll once again. Shayne too.
What is Reality? wrote:
Dathan has consecutively finished further back and slower in the Cross Race in Ireland in January over the last 3 years. Hudson directly stated two days before US Cross Nationals this year that Jason Hartman was in the shape of his life, "top five" for sure and a great marathon at London! What the F... Ever Brad!When you speak of Torres progress, make sure his being beaten by a 35 year old man at Cross and Salazar's Science Project do not show Torres improving, actually his 7th place in the 8k is by far the lowest finish for Jorge at a US Championship and Fam was the only top dog there. Hartman was 2nd at the half in his first year under Brad and was not there this year. You just proved that Brad does indeed have the most talent. Ryan Hall is now more likely to make the Olympic Team in the Marathon than Ritz, what? Who knew! How many Justin Young's and Clint Wells have to walk away from Brad before the picture is realize that he has absolutely NO CLUE!! Ryan Hall has made a progression under Terrance as has many of the kids in Minnesota and Oregon, but not in Boulder. You guys defend him as you like, but Hall, Fam, and Culpepper will take Olympic Team spots prior to anyone from Hudson's group, you can write that shit down. Fam trains himself and can whip any of Brad's guys anytime he wants at any distance up to half marathon! Hall, heck no competition, this was obvious at the 2006 Cross 12, when Hall conducted a Clinic on Hartman and Ritz. Oh, then there is Culpepper's clinic back in February of 2007, where he whipped the whole group by what, "running the smart-conservative race!" Best of luck to those guys, but to run for Brad because he is the only coach with a group in Boulder is self destructive!
wells has been done for years now. hard to believe he once ran 27:40 and was a very good steepler.