I'm running my 4th marathon next month on April 28 and my goal is to break 3:30. I think I have the fitness but are there any workouts that I could do that would help give me an indication that I can do it?
I know 3:30 is slow for most on here, but it would be a huge deal for me to break 3:30. I appreciate the advice, thank you.
Have you practiced running at marathon pace (8mn/mile)?
Try running 12-14 miles at marathon pace and pick up the pace for the last 2 miles. That should give you a good indication on what you can do on race day.
One thing that worked for me was to include mile repeats once a week during the last few weeks. Running 'fast' miles once a week made marathon pace seem easy.
Good luck! What marathon are you running?
What is your current marathon PR?
I'm shooting for a "mediocre" 3:35 BQ and since I've been hampered by a few injuries, really haven't gotten the training I wanted. Still plan to give it a shot if training and body holds for the last five weeks. I'm planning a long MP runs (12 milers) and the mile repeats over the next few weeks, which should make me stronger...
Good luck.
I read somewhere a while back about a workout called 'Yasso 800s', or something similar. I think the premise was that you had to be able to run 10 800m reps in your 'marathon time' (i.e. 3 minutes and 30 seconds for you) to be sure you could run the marathon in that time. Only problem is I can't remember what rest you were supposed to take between reps, probably around a minute.
I'm sure a google search would reveal more.
return to index wrote:
Have you practiced running at marathon pace (8mn/mile)?
Try running 12-14 miles at marathon pace and pick up the pace for the last 2 miles. That should give you a good indication on what you can do on race day.
One thing that worked for me was to include mile repeats once a week during the last few weeks. Running 'fast' miles once a week made marathon pace seem easy.
Good luck! What marathon are you running?
Yep, I think the 14-16 mile MP run about a month out is a great indicator. If you're in shape to hit your goal, you will feel confident after a 14-16 mile MP run because it will feel comfortable even in the middle of your heavy training load.
yassos wrote:
I read somewhere a while back about a workout called 'Yasso 800s', or something similar. I think the premise was that you had to be able to run 10 800m reps in your 'marathon time' (i.e. 3 minutes and 30 seconds for you) to be sure you could run the marathon in that time. Only problem is I can't remember what rest you were supposed to take between reps, probably around a minute.
I'm sure a google search would reveal more.
Equal rest to run ratio: 3:30 with 3:30 rest.
Yassos are a floor predictor at best - if you can't do them, you won't be able to do 3:30. If you can do them, you might be able to go 3:30
Yasso 800s
Weekly build up from 5x800 to 10x800 at goal pace in minutes (3:30 min for 3:30:00 marathon)
Rest time equals rep time (3:30 in this case)
I think the mile repeats are harder though...
I've never done them, but I would also be surprised if doing 8km of reps with such long rests would give much indication of marathon potential.
Running 12 miles at marathon pace with a strong finish about 4 weeks before the race gave me a good indication on my potential. I also did the 'yassos' and, strangely enough, it worked. It might have been purely psychological, but at the time (2 weeks before the race), I was grateful for everything that could give me a little extra confidence.
One thing to keep in mind is that you should perform better after your tapering, once your legs are fresh, and on race day with all the adrenaline. I took five days off before my last marathon as my legs were stiff and I felt tired all the time. It's a bit extreme, but it worked for me as I couldn't wait to run on race day!
Good luck!
I did them for my last marathon and I qualified for Boston with 3:30. I did 10 of them in 3:30 with 2:00 rest 8 weeks before race day.
3 weeks later I covered 14 miles at MP or faster and closed the last 8 in 60:20.
My best 20 milers closed with 3 or 4 miles sub pace (7:50-7:45) 5 weeks before.
I peaked at 66 MPW 10 weeks before race day, and ran as much as 60 4 weeks before.
The Yassos were more of a confidence booster than anything, I think closing out long runs strong and ready for more is the best thing you can do- run each mile as fast (hold pace) or faster than the last, and be ready to do the same thing on race day.
And run at least 60 MPW.
Thanks for all of the help so far. My marathon PR is 3:36 at the Flying Pig and that was off very low mileage. I ran a 1:33 half earlier this month and have been in the 50MPW range with long runs of 18-20. I've been able to close all of my long runs in under 7:45 for the last 3-5 miles.
The 12-14 mile MP run sounds like a great idea. I've been doing 1 MP run each week, but I've been starting out too fast and really getting fatigued by the end, but I think a lot of that is cumulative mileage building up. I've never run high mileage at all(only been running about 2.5 years) so 50 feels like a lot to me.
Does anyone else think the 1 mile repeats sound like a good idea? If so, how many and what pace?
Again, thank you for all of the help.
Oh, I'm running the Country Music Marathon.
[quote]Does anyone else think the 1 mile repeats sound like a good idea?[quote]Some really believe in them, but I think long MP runs and the long run itself are the best foundation. You sound pretty fit, and actually 3:30 should be easy for you off a 1:33 half. YOu just need endurance. I say be sure to get in a few more 20 or 22 milers, and get the total mileage up near 60. Hill repeats are another good workout- run at least 5 repeats of a 1/4 to half mile long hill as fast as practical, jogging back down each time.
asicsstrider wrote:
I'm running my 4th marathon next month on April 28 and my goal is to break 3:30. I think I have the fitness but are there any workouts that I could do that would help give me an indication that I can do it?
I know 3:30 is slow for most on here, but it would be a huge deal for me to break 3:30. I appreciate the advice, thank you.
my guess is the vast majority of posters here have never run a marathon. i would be a bit leary of taking advice on the marathon from people who have never run one. according to marathonguide.com a 3:30 marathon puts you in the top 11% of all marathoners last year. so in my opinion, it is a respectable time. the average time for a woman was over 5 hours and the average time for a man was 4:36. the fastest age group was M40-44 with an average time of 4:20. that said, the time is not "slow" for people here, contrary to what some may post.
i ran a 3:30 last year on about 20-25 mpw training. i did no speed work. my training consisted of a weekly long run that got up to 20 miles. i only did one of those. i ran at least 10 miles almost every saturday and about 15 sundays as well. the rest of my running consisted of runs of 3 or 4 miles at a time. it would not have been unusual for me to have a 20 mile week with 16 of those miles coming in one run and the other 4 in the only other run that week. not the way i would recommend someone train.
my saturday long runs were done at about 8:30 pace, so just a little slower than marathon pace. for me, the key was consistently doing the longer runs.
my training is nowhere near ideal and last years time could have been much better with a more well thought out training plan. i simply did not have the desire or time to do that.
as far as workouts that may give you an indication of your fitness level, some have already mentioned yasso (sp?) 800s, but i have very little confidence in them as an indicator. if you do them, go to runners world's site to get the "correct" version of them since he is a writer there and they will have an article on them.
i think the best indicator would be a recent half marathon/20k race. in my case, i ran a half about 6 months before that was a 1:35 and then a 1:28 20k about 1 month before the race.
good luck.
sam w wrote:
my guess is the vast majority of posters here have never run a marathon. i would be a bit leary of taking advice on the marathon from people who have never run one.
sam, who are you talking about??
100% of posters in this thread have run a marathon and shared good advice...and i would think that MOST people on letsrun are distance runners who have at least run one marathon.
I'm guessing that the distance is a much bigger challenge for you than the pace. Mile repeats might be a good idea if you are just a plain slow runner who needs a kick in the rear. But you've run 1:33 which ought to be plenty fast to get under 3:30 ... if you have the endurance. Long tempo runs and consistent weekly mileage were the keys that helped me meet my goal last time out, the first time I did not crater in seven marathons.
And for me, the Yasso 800s are a horrible predictor, especially with that much rest.
That's bart yasso from runners world and its correctly stated here. I agree the yasso 800's give you decent idea but a half with similar elevation etc is much better predictor but more disruptive to your current training schedule than an 800 workout.
Mile repeats are probably the toughest single workout ive done - 5-6 reps @10k race pace with 2-5 min rest. They will build fitness and stregth
But it looks like you got enough speed for your goal. You'll be best off working on your pacing during thoose long runs.
is a great free website to measure out your long run course. You can get a pretty accurate distance mark to help you regulate your pace early on.
long distance runner wrote:
sam, who are you talking about??
100% of posters in this thread have run a marathon and shared good advice...and i would think that MOST people on letsrun are distance runners who have at least run one marathon.
i agree that the vast majority of posters on this board are "distance runners" of one sort or another.
i think it is impossible to know for sure, but my GUESS is that if you were able to look at the demographics of letsrun visitors you would find a big bump in the high school age group, then another in the college age. after that people stop running. my feeling is that the number of posters in the late 20s to mid 30s drops off a lot. i suspect another bump occurs at about 40 or so.
i base the above in part on the age demographics i see in races. the competition in the late 20s and all of the 30s is weak. i am assuming a similar trend exists with posters here.
assuming i am correct in my guess, i think it is a fair assumption that few of the posters in college or high school have run a marathon. that leaves the 40+ age group and not all of them will have run one.
my guess, and i admit it is just a guess, is that fewer than 10% of the posters here have run a marathon.
it would be interesting to know though. i think it would make a good poll question on the front page.
as far as the advice on this thread, i think most of it is pretty good and it does appear those that responded have actually run one.
long distance runner wrote:
sam w wrote:my guess is the vast majority of posters here have never run a marathon. i would be a bit leary of taking advice on the marathon from people who have never run one.
sam, who are you talking about??
100% of posters in this thread have run a marathon and shared good advice...and i would think that MOST people on letsrun are distance runners who have at least run one marathon.
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just to clarify, i did NOT mean posters to THIS thread. i meant posters in general. i should have been a bit clearer in my wording.
no offense was intended to anyone who responded to this thread.
And for me, the Yasso 800s are a horrible predictor, especially with that much rest.I agree, which is why when I did mine I cut the rest down to half the actual work period- in my case, I was able to use a measured 1000 yards, and did about a 400 yard jog between, the time of each interval was exactly 4:00 on and 2:00 off. So I guess another way that workout would have been written is 1000 yds in 4:00 on 6:00.
If you have run a 1:33 you are there. You don't need to close in on longs runs below marathon pace and you don't need to run marathon pace runs below marathon pace. If you are not running a buttload of miles, just make sure you run several honest marathon pace runs (10 miles or over). Yasso's (or any repeat workouts) don't mean much without the long runs or marathon pace runs. Why would you run your marathon pace runs too fast? You already know that you can run under 7:20 pace for 13+ miles... Try running 20 miles at 8mm pace without stopping for water/pee breaks. That wil be the test. Don't take that to mean that you shouldn't hydrate or gel..just set it up with cups along the course ot a friend on a bike with a bottle. A 1:33 guy or girl should be able to run sub 3:20 easlily if your traning is marathon specific. Good luck. You've done a few and you know what to expect.