How fast will Goucher and Torres go on the 2nd???

Agreed. Their focus is there and confidence is high as they're in a kinda no-lose situation.

GO USA

I believe Goucher will definitely get it. He was soundly beaten by Torres a few weeks before USATF's and then improved enough to beat Torres in return. He states that his training has been going awesome since and is much better than at nationals, which is enough for me.

With Torres, I give him a 50/50 shot, at best.

Goucher maybe 13:25....Torres in a fast race might go 13:20 right now..but no faster...Torres is looking to next year.....

Does anyone look at Jorge's running form and lack of esseential finishing speed (on the world level) and question the wisdom in running the 5k?

His speed? Slow...Compared to what? 1250 5k'ers? He has sub 4 speed ability if he ran it at his peak in a fast race. He's gone 1324 in the 5k. Why should he move up? His speed will continue to get faster as he does. One is not stuck on a certain speed just because that is their current ability. how fast are most 1324 5k runners? Personally i think he is capable of going 338 when at his best.

mrr, please. torres will NEVER see 3:38. he is only 1:51 guy at best. btw... sub-4 mile is SHIT. stop using taht as a measuring stick.

is till think he can run the five k for a whilte though... like 3 years...then 'thon/couple 10's

"how fast are most 1324 5k runners?"

Duh? Uh,...13:24? There's a trick to this, isn't there?

I would agree with the fact that a mile speed to a large extent is over rated. Look at nick rogers he ran 13:18 and consistantly runs in the 3:45 range for 1500. While the speed is important in a championship situation. When the race goes out fast (as this one will since the goal is to get the A standard) the finishing kick is less important.

I've never seen Torres close like many can on the world scene. Even when he beat Meb, I believe (anyone can correct me if I am wrong) his lap was about 57.

He also had the chance to win a few NCAA titles (indoor and outdoor 5k come immediately to mind) and couldn't outkick his opponents.

Like Kimani? Him not being able to outkick guys out of his class has nothing to do with if he has enough speed for his 5k ability. Kamani had 335 speed give or take and a 1310 pr. Torres had had a breakthrough season that year but nothing that could give him the edge over Kimani. Kimani would do the same to him over 10k when he was healthy....Or a marathon...It doesnt matter what the distance was. So should torres then move up to the 100k because he cant outkick Kimani at any distance that is raced? He can work on his speed and improve it.

mrr82 wrote:

So should torres then move up to the 100k because he cant outkick Kimani at any distance that is raced?

that's actually the smartest thing you've said

Yes, I agree. Torres is probably going to be a better 10k plus man. I bet he'd make a good marathoner someday. He is light, efficient, and appears economical.

I wasnt suggesting he should move up...I was just saying that making a point of how he got outkicked at 5k...When he would have gotten outkicked by the same guy at any other distance up or down. I do believe he can be pulled to a 338 in an elite race. No one ever believes it till it happens. Ritz popped out a 342 his freshman year...where he got outkicked. Who knows if he would have gone even faster. People underestimate the speed of the tops guys in the college system based on their times. The competition never pushes the pace in the past few years. Hence Robison going over to Europe and runnign 336, Willis also. No one would have predicted that..Well i would have. Someone like Torres would benefit even more from a fast pace then someone like Robison, not that he would beat him. But i definatly think he would go sub 340 over in europe.

I like tacos!

i cant tell you how fast they will not run. but i can tell you how fast they will run. i can tell you they will not run as fast as the pace of the 10k world record--13.11. but i cant tell you that they will both not break the american record.

"i cant tell you how fast they will not run. but i can tell you how fast they will run. i can tell you they will not run as fast as the pace of the 10k world record--13.11. but i cant tell you that they will both not break the american record."

That made no sense at all. Wow. So you know that they will not go 1311...but you dont know if they will go sub 1258? Maybe i should stay over at Dyestat...no one there is that stupid.

how fast will they run???????? shooooot, the operative question is "what have they done since nationals?"...with the answer to that question in hand, we can then hypothesize with some sense of armchair pseudo-intelligence!

Well for starters you can use Torres 1324 pr way back when he was no where close to his peak. And he ran smart during The outdoor season to maximize his potential for worlds. One would think from that he might go 1312-1316 if the pace is there.

Heres gouchers take on where he is

"After Nationals I came home and really focused on getting in 4 solid weeks of training. Mark and I felt that it was important for me to gain as much fitness as I could in that time. I'm in my 4th week now and these have been the best 4 weeks since my surgery. Kara and I head over to Europe on the 23rd (July). We will be running a 1500m in Greece on the 27th and then we will head up to Belgium where I will run the 5k going after the standard. If for some reason I don't get the standard there, I will go onto London or Berlin for another attempt."

You have no idea what you're talking about. Jorge's entire season has been geared towards worlds.