would it be bad to do an all out 400 just to see?

Why not? Just remember to do a proper warm up and stretching before hand..

and expect to be unable to walk for 2 days with v.sore hamstrings, but shouldn't be any long term damage

damn, really, let's see if i do it saturday don't have track work again until tuesdayi guess i just want to see what the awful feeling is like when racing a 400 versus racing a 5k

ouch! wrote:

and expect to be unable to walk for 2 days with v.sore hamstrings, but shouldn't be any long term damage

I don't really compete anymore and pretty much all I do is what one would consider "base" training but I have no problem pulling out the spikes and racing the kids I coach for a 400 occasionally haven't broken 60 for any of these but 60.x several times). I run fine the next day. Go for it. When it comes right down to it, are you a pro or do you do this for fun? Have some fun!

Warm up for more than 10 minutes.

You want to do some easy jogging, stretching, some drills... make sure you're really, really warmed up. The strides are a good idea too, I do each one getting faster until I'm slightly above race pace.

Focus on running on your toes, higher knee drive than normal (but don't overdo it), don't over-stride, drive your arms hard and keep them straight in line with your body. Your arms are really important for the last 100m especially.

Let us know how it goes!

thanks for the tips... as the one poster said, just for funI'm hoping it might give me some insight as well - do i really need to work on speed, etc.i have a feeling i can cross the 200 in 30 or 31, i guess i'll just have to see how hard i die/how hard it is to hang on

track chick wrote:

Warm up for more than 10 minutes.

You want to do some easy jogging, stretching, some drills... make sure you're really, really warmed up. The strides are a good idea too, I do each one getting faster until I'm slightly above race pace.

Focus on running on your toes, higher knee drive than normal (but don't overdo it), don't over-stride, drive your arms hard and keep them straight in line with your body. Your arms are really important for the last 100m especially.

Let us know how it goes!

anEconomist wrote:

i have a feeling i can cross the 200 in 30 or 31, i guess i'll just have to see how hard i die/how hard it is to hang on

if youre shooting for a 60 second quarter or a sub 60 second quarter you should definately go out in UNDER 30 seconds... 29 seconds at the slowest. If you go out in 31 you will will probably be coming in at 63.

Most of the fastest 400m runners and most of the fastest 400 races are NOT negative split.

I will say this as someone who has been in this position. Forget about pace. Unless you were some lightning sprinter as a kid, you need to be redlined the whole way. It's all going to feel the same with 100 to go anyway. Take off full speed and hang on. This is the way slow twitch guys run 400's.

yeah, another good point...i did not have lightning speed as a kid although i wasn't baddefinitely a slow twitch dude at this point

realitybreak wrote:

I will say this as someone who has been in this position. Forget about pace. Unless you were some lightning sprinter as a kid, you need to be redlined the whole way. It's all going to feel the same with 100 to go anyway. Take off full speed and hang on. This is the way slow twitch guys run 400's.

Final tip (don't want you to overanalyze it--a balls-out 400 can be a blast): if your legs start to feel heavy (and if you run it right, they're likely to), switch your brain to your arms (specifically your elbows) and keep them moving back-and-back-and-back. When your arm swings back, your body moves forward. Don't "muscle" it, just keep 'em swinging.

"i guess i just want to see what the awful feeling is like when racing a 400 versus racing a 5k"

it wont really be comparable in terms of how much it hurts, because to run a 400 PROPERLY (and i dont mean this in an yway to be offensive) and to get real lactic i think you'd need to be able to run the first 200 a lot quicker than you are capable of at the moment.

A 200 can be really easy even if you run it flat out if you are not running at your body's maximum speed (which you won't be because that's not what you've trained to do). If you run a 200 to your body's full potential then it can hurt a lot. That's why someone like Wallace Spearmon is tired at the end of a 19.xx 200, even though he is capable of a 44/45 400.

no offense taken, to be honest i have no idea what i can even run a 100m in... does anyone actually do a full out timed 100m who is a distance runner... i did them in high school in soccer and that was about it, many years ago... some day maybe after doing a few all out 400s a few weeks in a row i'd like to do an all out 100m when i'm sure i won't tear something

fast twitch wrote:

"i guess i just want to see what the awful feeling is like when racing a 400 versus racing a 5k"

it wont really be comparable in terms of how much it hurts, because to run a 400 PROPERLY (and i dont mean this in an yway to be offensive) and to get real lactic i think you'd need to be able to run the first 200 a lot quicker than you are capable of at the moment.

A 200 can be really easy even if you run it flat out if you are not running at your body's maximum speed (which you won't be because that's not what you've trained to do). If you run a 200 to your body's full potential then it can hurt a lot. That's why someone like Wallace Spearmon is tired at the end of a 19.xx 200, even though he is capable of a 44/45 400.

this thread really depresses me. getting old stinks.

Agreed with whoever said run it at the redline the whole way. I am still young but when I switched from long sprints to mid distance and tried to pace myself for an 400 I could only run 56. It took throwing me in 4x400 to just go balls out and run a 52. Take it out in 28 at the slowest if you want to run a 60. And it won't be your lungs that get you, it will be your legs at about 250-300m that are going to start hating you

wait until you are deeper into your track intervals and speed work a couple months from now. it will mean more, anyway.

If you're really running "all out" for 400 meters, prepare to puke.

I ate shredded wheat and lots of strawberries for breakfast before I raced my first 400 in high school. When I puked, I thought I was thowing up blood. I thought I was going to die.

Just a warning!

i'm actually looking forward to it, i've noticed my 400 rep work has been feeling pretty easy, i think i just finished the best base season i've ever done

to the guy who said it depresses you about getting old

i suppose but i'm only 29, i just didn't run distance in high school so this stuff is still a bit new to me

you hear about guys closing in 52 and stuff... i guess i just want to know at least what a 60 feels like at least once (although i guess it feels a lot different for those guys)

I agree with several of the above points, namely:

- At LEAST 10 min warm up jog

- Strides, with the last couple at 400 speed

- Focus on working the arms when the legs feel like lead the last 50m (or more!)

I ran 13.6 and 27 flat with blocks at an all comers meet several months ago. Recently, coming off base work with no track stuff, I did a 62.7 400.

I was dying badly on the last 50m. I don't think I started all out, tried to wind up during the first 100m, was pretty much all out at 200m (don't have a split), and began to die with 80m left. That part sucked ass, but was fun otherwise. Felt like crap for 15-20 min after, but no leg pain.

Have fun!!

I agree with Hedge. Warm up and down thoroughly.