half-marathon training

I have had really good experience with myself, as well as athletes I train, doing three key workouts a week with low-medium mileage. One set of Critical Velocity intervals, one Tempo run of 4-8 miles, and one Long run of 12-16 miles. I am by no means a fast runner anymore. However, last year I had success with this schedule. I have had numerous athletes pr in the 10k to the marathon using this same design (just slight changes in volume and design based on teh goal event).

Monday 8 Steady (7:00-6:45/ Mile) Tueday 2.0 Up/ 5-7 Miles worth of Critical Velocity/ 2.0 Down (Example: 8-10 * 1k, 5-7 * 1600, 5-6 * 2k, 3-4 * 3k, etc) I use 1:00 Jog Recovery per 1k of hard running Wednesday 8 Miles Steady (7:00-6:45/ Mile) Thursday 8 Miles Easy (7:15-7:00/ Mile) Friday 2.0 Up/ 4-8 Miles at Tempo/ 2.0 Down Saturday 8 Miles Easy (7:15-7:00/ Mile) Sunday 12-16 Miles Steady (7:00-6:45/ Mile) Roughly 65 Miles/ Week

pic please

Runnergirl1986,

There are two types of quality days you show be incorporating into your half marathon training.

1) Threshold Work - This is tempo runs of 5-7 miles at half marathon race pace or repeats of 1 mile to 5k @ half marathon race pace with 20% of run time recovery.

Examples may include:

a) 10k tempo run

b) 4 x 3k w 2min recovery

2) VO2 Max Intervals - This is repeats of 800m to 1 mile done at 90% of half marathon race pace (roughly 5k race pace) with same time recovery jog between them. Total distance of repeats should be between 4 and 5 miles.

Examples include:

a) 7-8 x 1000 w 400 jog

b) 4-5 x 1600 w 800 jog

Hey Mr. Marathon,

Isn't a 10k at Half Marathon pace a little on the intense side for a tempo run? I do ok breaking that up into 4x2 miles with 400m recovery. Just curious.

It may be too intense for some - defintely don't want to feel like you're racing a workout. One approach I use for tempo runs is to have negative splits, starting at about 30 sec/mile slower than race pace but gradually ramping up until my last mile or two are at my target HM pace. Total workout should be 6-7 miles.

Scott

stipe wrote:

Hey Mr. Marathon,

Isn't a 10k at Half Marathon pace a little on the intense side for a tempo run? I do ok breaking that up into 4x2 miles with 400m recovery. Just curious.

I don't think so. A 10k tempo run @ HM pace is a staple in my program. It may also be worth starting out at 4 x 3k w 2min recovery or even 2 x 5k w 3-4 min recovery if you have trouble with the full 10k distance at once. Maybe the first time you do it start with 8k and work up to 10k over a few weeks. Alternate weeks between the tempo run and the cruise intervals (4 x 3k). The key to this workout is to make it a good strong effort but definately NOT a race or timetrial effort. Concentrate on keeping the effort the same each week (88-92% of MHR), a Heart Rate Monitor is good for tracking this.

If you can't handle 47% (6.2/13.1) of the distance at race pace in training then running 100% of the distance at race pace in a race won't happen.

Running 10k at HM pace might work if the pace is slow... but when HM pace is only 8-10 secs/mile slower than 10k pace, your advice ain't gonna work! Trust me on this. When HM pace is only 20 secs/mile slower than 5k pace... your advice ain't gonna work!

And (88-92% of MHR) is on the low side for your HM average HR. 88-89% is more like marathon pace.

And this is just BS: "If you can't handle 47% (6.2/13.1) of the distance at race pace in training then running 100% of the distance at race pace in a race won't happen."

If you have a relatively fast HM time (say HM pace is 94% of 5k pace... so 5k pace is 5:00 and HM pace is 5:20), then running 10k at HM pace in training is just wayyyyy too intense for a training night.

I started to let your post go and not reply but others may be mislead by you.

First off my training advice is spot on for 99.9% of the readers of this board and 100% on for those who go here to get training advice. The 88-92% of MHR was a general guideline example for 99% runners not a hard and fast rule.

Lets review a few simple facts.

If you look across equivalent times (using most any repuatable scoring table ... IAAF, Mercier) for distance races regardless of the level of the runner you will see:

HM pace is about 95% of marathon race pace

10k pace is about 90% of marathon race pace

5k pace is about 90% of half marathon pace

Using equivalent times you would never have a person you describe with a 5k pace of 5:00 and a HM pace of 5:20.

Using equivelant times if a person had a 5:00 5k pace their HM pace would be about 5:32.

Sure time wise as you get faster the 5% or 10% time intervals are smaller (i.e 5% of 5 minutes is alot less then 5% of 8 minutes) but the math still holds very true.

Interesting you think that a 10k tempo run @ HM pace is "wayyyy" to intense for a single training session. In a recent interview Ryan Hall talks about doing 10-12 mile tempo runs @ equivalent to a 4:40 pace. His half marathon pace is just 6 seconds faster (4:34). Surely if he cut his distance in half he could average 6 seconds a mile faster. While Hall is a world class athlete the math still works for the rest of us as well. 10k @ HM pace is a good hard solid but doable workout. My 1:08:20 PR tells me that this is correct as I do this regularly as does several of the people I advise with significantly slower PR's. It a good solid workout for anyone with a base conditioning of over 50 miles per week.

Now if you are person who belives in going moderately hard every other day and "must" get in 3-4 quality session + long run each week to feel like you are training then you are correct the 10k Tempo @ HM is not for you as you will come in fatigued from previous workouts. (You need to be somewhat fresh coming in and take a couple of easy days afterwards - i.e. its a hard day.) This workout is for those (like me) who believe that in half marathon training 2 quality sessions per week is appropriate and thus these two workouts can be done significantly hard.

For the sake of clarity use the following rules for the workouts I described. For half marathon training:

Tempo pace runs (and cruise intervals) are to be done at half marathon race pace

VO2 Max Interval pace is 90% of half marathon pace

No more than 2 of these workouts (in total) are to be done in any 1 week.

Ideally weekly training schedule might look like this:

Day 1: recovery run

Day 2: Tempo run or cruise intervals

Day 3: easy run

Day 4: easy run

Day 5: VO2 Max intervals

Day 6: easy run

Day 7: long run

Mr.Marathon wrote:

If you look across equivalent times using most any repuatable scoring tables...

"Equivalent times" are exactly that. They are not predictions of what any one athlete will achieve at other distances. That would imply that we live in a perfect world where each of us is equally good at every race distance. Life ain't like that. Few of us are equally good across the board.

Using equivalent times you would never have a person you describe with a 5k pace of 5:00 and a HM pace of 5:20...

Like I say: life ain't as perfect as those tables suggest. Of course you DO know that Paula's 5,000m PR is 4:39m/m (14:49) and her uWB HM 1:05:40 (5:00m/m) and a diff of 21 secs/mile? Just like I proposed above and you (and your tables) say is impossible?

ps: You must be some coach, who can claim that his advice works 100% for the readers of this board.

Good day to you, sir!

Ach, I must correct myself PR's 5k is (of course) 14:29 (which is still 4:39m/m)

Reality check 2 U wrote:

Like I say: life ain't as perfect as those tables suggest. Of course you DO know that Paula's 5,000m PR is 4:39m/m (14:49) and her uWB HM 1:05:40 (5:00m/m) and a diff of 21 secs/mile? Just like I proposed above and you (and your tables) say is impossible?

Good day to you, sir!

Reality Check,

I never said that you can't have a person with there 5k PR and their HM PR are 21 seconds apart in reality. I'm sure this happens all the time. I'm saying in the equilavency tables this does not happen at a 5:00 per mile 5k runner pace.

Based on the tables Paula's 5k pace is somewhat light compared with her HM time. But not as far one might think. Her HM pace of 5:00 per mile would suggest a 5k equivalent pace of 4:31. Her best is 4:39 pace. Obviously she is better suited to the HM and Marathon.

Unless there are serious limitations (i.e. > 95% slow twitch or fast twitch fibers) one should train based on the 95% and 90% rules I described in a previous post. I just noted that these times are about HM, 10k or 5k race base based on equivelancy tables.

Many marathoners don't train for and race 5k's and vice versa so naturally there actual PR's and equivalent times will not match up well (for many). But the training guideline I give is based on % of race pace or equivelant tables (if you prefer to use that) not real world PR's whch we all know can be misleading.

Why don't you try this. Instead of attacking anothers position and advise, try suggesting your own. Its a much more positive experience for yourself and others reading your posts.

Mr. M.

Mr.Marathon wrote:

If you look across equivalent times (using most any repuatable scoring table ... IAAF, Mercier) for distance races regardless of the level of the runner you will see:

HM pace is about 95% of marathon race pace

10k pace is about 90% of marathon race pace

5k pace is about 90% of half marathon pace

Let's plug in Paula Radcliffe's numbers:

Marathon PR: 2:15:25 (~5:10m/m)

Therefore, if Mr Marathon's advice is sound, we get:

HM = ~95% of Marathon race pace = 4:54m/m = 1:04:32

Reality: 1:05:40... so the tables overestimate performance

10k pace is ~90% of marathon race pace = 4:39m/m = 28:54/10k

Reality: track PR: 30.01... so tables SERIOUSLY overestimate

5k pace is ~ 90% of HM pace = 4:30m/m = 14:00/5k

reality: track PR: 14:29... so tables SERIOUSLY overestimate

Mr Marathon's numbers suggest Paula should be running (based on her 2:15 marathon):

HM: 1:04:32

10k: 28:54

5k: 14:00

You DO realise you are offering advice to a female athlete?

Not getting at you, my friend, but you seem to be saying that equivalent tables are more reliable than reality (somewhere you said, real-life PRs can be "misleading").

That's where you and I differ. Today, tomorrow and the next day... I prefer to coach the real-life athlete in front of me, and not expect them to perform like it says in some book.

Good night.

You are so far off base I don't know where to start.

I never said Paula should be running those times. I actually said the contrary.

Actually you can take the equivalency tables out of the equation if you'd like just follow the % of race pace rules I gave you for tempo runs and interval work.

Grow-up and stop trying to misrepresent what I've said.

Here's my advice to runnergirl: Ask yourself what you need to work on most. Are your shorter times a lot faster than the so-called prediction tables say your longer distqance times should be? If so, work more at mileage and slower than HM pace long tempo runs. If you are the rare individual who has maximized marathon and half-marathon at the expense of 5K races, then go back and work at VO2Max and HM pace tempo runs. (I too agree that 10K at HM pace is a lot of work. The good doctor Daniels would suggest perhaps 20-30 minutes max, maybe a little more if it's broken up into long reps with short rest.)

My point, before the coaches start freaking out, is that runners are not all the same. I know runners who can get to a half-marathon pace that is within 20 seconds of 5K pace, or a marathon that is well within 30 seconds of 10K pace, while certain charts and tables would suggest that this is impossible. Know what is limiting you and work to improve it. Everyone is built differently and needs to understand thier own physiology in creating a training program. Beware a coach who says he has a single program that works for 100 percent of the people.

Actually, Mr Marathon, "Reality" is correct here. Not only in the "being right about the running issue" sense, but also concerning the following "I said / He said" discussion.

Nothing mean or personal, just as I see it. Hope you reread it and get it as it's good advice.

Peace.

Mr.Marathon wrote:

Interesting you think that a 10k tempo run @ HM pace is "wayyyy" to intense for a single training session. In a recent interview Ryan Hall talks about doing 10-12 mile tempo runs @ equivalent to a 4:40 pace. His half marathon pace is just 6 seconds faster (4:34). Surely if he cut his distance in half he could average 6 seconds a mile faster. While Hall is a world class athlete the math still works for the rest of us as well. 10k @ HM pace is a good hard solid but doable workout. My 1:08:20 PR tells me that this is correct as I do this regularly as does several of the people I advise with significantly slower PR's. It a good solid workout for anyone with a base conditioning of over 50 miles per week.

Half marathon pace for 10k is WAYYYY to intense for a tempo run. In fact, any run that doesn't leave you invigorated afterwards is NOT a tempo run -- it's a race.

FWIW Hall's HM pace is 4:33.3, which is 28:18 for 10k. Too fast for a tempo run. I feel the best rule of thumb for tempo runs is "marathon pace to midway between HMP and MP." It's OK to drop down to under HM pace for a mile or two.

If you are doing tempo runs properly you should be able to run them 4-5 times a week, IF you chose to do so. To borrow a slogan from an alternative transportation company (The Green Tortoise) -- "arrive inspired, not dog tired."

Malmo

When I talk about a "tempo run" and what you think of as a "tempo run" are two different things. The work I am talking about is not something that can be done 4-5 times a week, but that doesn't make it a race. I believe in less quality workouts per week in number than some but harder quality workouts than most.

I do this workout regularly (every 2-3 weeks) and its a very good workout. But I come in fresh after a couple of easy run days and have a couple of easy runs scheduled afterwards (stress than and recover ... training). Its not an all out effort, more like 85%.

I do understand what you consider a tempo run and think that its great but its not what I'm talking about here. Maybe I should call it by another name (i.e "race pace" work).

I also think what you refer to as an appropriate "tempo run" differs from Dr. Daniels and many others as well.

Also note I state the range for the workout as 8-10k and give advice how to work up to the 10k distance.

Think of it on par with some of those second rate 10k's that Bill Rodgers jumped into each week and trained through. He was able to go 85-90% effort and win in a mid 29 effort. He was doing exactly what I recommend here.

Mr.M.

Thanks for your clarification, but tempo runs are not races and races are not tempo runs.

One of JD's most successful runners used to do tempo runs at those paces and would feel great for a few months then crash for many more months, rendering his training a moot point -- "inexplicably" he told me. Inexplicably was the last word on my mind, it was an obvious mistake that I've seen over and over many times over the decades -- athletes over-doing their tempo runs. Duh.

Perhaps if runners would learn to do tempo runs properly, their HM times would drop dramatically, and they'd "get it." Tempo runs at HM pace is WAAAAY to fast. I'm sure of it.