Masters sub 4

Mark Setgo wrote:

Am I crazy?

It's possible that you are crazy. Do you have any symptoms?

I still run intervals at age 55 so, yes I have symptoms.

Bingo!

It can be done at 45, Coughlan ran 3.58 indoors, so he might have run 3.56 outdoors, and a 3.59 aged 43 if he had raced as well at that age.

masterblasterrrr wrote:

It can be done at 45, Coughlan ran 3.58 indoors, so he might have run 3.56 outdoors, and a 3.59 aged 43 if he had raced as well at that age.

If it's possible, why hasn't anyone done it? Will we have to wait until Alan Webb is 45? Why couldn't Steve Scott do it? Spivey? Ryun? Any of the great milers that have ever lived?

Realistically, it is impossible until someone does the impossible!!

Since The chairman of the boards ran his fastest ever mile indoors(349) one can not assume that he could have run 356 outside. Indoors was his bread and butter as a miler.

Realistically, it is impossible until someone does the impossible!!

Thank you Thomas Paine, but I don't quite follow your logic....if something is impossible then it will NEVER be done.

Mark Setgo wrote:

Thank you Thomas Paine, but I don't quite follow your logic....if something is impossible then it will NEVER be done.

No.

I have made some attempts to run fast miles and 1500's over the past three years or so. Even though I ran 4:05.51 Indoor Mile @ UW in 2005, I didn't want to think of a sub four attempt until I got it down to 4:02-3 with the pacing. I think my workouts at the time (43 yrs old) were close, but my racing wasn't there yet. The best effort (and probably best chance) came in the Oregon Inv in 2003 when I finished 4th in the 1500 (3:46.41).

My faster days (sub 4:10 miles) might be over as a 45 year old, but with Jim Sorenson quickly approaching the Masters level (June?), I think he might have some serious opportunities to do something special!

Stubbornly Aging,

tony y

C'mon guys, the first to do it will be Paul Tergat, just ask the 430miler.

yeah, a while in the future as the human life expectancy lengthens, people will be able to retain their speed to later ages, 50+ year olds will run sub4 miles

First of all, has any American, aged 40+, ever run a sub-4:00 mile? If no, or even if a handful have, why are we talking about some 45-year old being capable? By the way Northwest Master, a 4:05 at 43 is absolutely stunning. Most guys will never get that in their lives.

Masters success is a combination of two things:

1) Base ability

2) Longevity

Having one doesn't guarantee the other. The best masters runners have some combination of the two.

A runner who excelled as an open competitor can find success as a masters runner even if his longevity is average, because even though he (or she) slows at a similar rate to others of his age, he has the advantage of starting from a faster base (i.e.--a 13 minute 5K runner who loses 2 minutes is still a 15 minute 40-year-old, while a 15 minute open runner slowing the same amount will end up at 17+ minutes).

A runner who was average as an open runner yet excels in the category of longevity also does well as a masters runner. I ran 14:38 for 5K when I was 24. I ran 14:45 when I was 45.

Coglan was a runner who excelled both in base ability and longevity. That's why he's the only masters runner to break 4 minutes.

Other runners like Coglan will come along, and one of them will undoubtedly break 4 minutes as a 45-year-old.

As for 50? ... Maybe if El G has the longevity ... But definitely not in the very near future (let's try for 4:20 first!).

Flamin E is Flamin E.

tom byers talked alot at parties that he was going to continue to "grow his hair, and run sub four till i'm 50".

yeah, only not so much.

steve scott always said he could do it till the mid 40's.

yeah, only not so much.

have to be awfully good folks.

i mean real good. coghlan's level while an open runner.

the west coast tony guy putting up times on an indoor 300m track . . .what did that translate to in ithaca? ouch.

yeah, only not so much.

oh, by the way, did webb break 4 minutes last night?

yeah, only not so much.

50 year old breaking 4?

no.

[quote]I'm impressed wrote:

First of all, has any American, aged 40+, ever run a sub-4:00 mile? If no, or even if a handful have . . . [quote]

Coghlan is the only human over 40 to run a sub-4. The outdoor mark is 4:02.53 by Moorcroft.

50 sub 4 will happen. Us old guy got led in our pencils. you can go to the grave kind of fast.

Considering no 40-year old in the world has ever broken 4:00 outdoors, I highly doubt that a 45 or 50 year old will come close.

In fact, it's somewhat incredible to me that breaking 4:00 for a masters runner is even more rare than it is for a high schooler.

I'm impressed wrote:

In fact, it's somewhat incredible to me that breaking 4:00 for a masters runner is even more rare than it is for a high schooler.

I think the motivation for high schoolers is greater. For open runners, there was tremendous motivation among Coglan's generation (Scott, Walker, etc.) to the the first to break 4 minutes, then not so much motivation after it had been done. Then it simply became a semi-interesting reason to hang around (training really hard, dieting, dealing with injuries, etc.) after their best years were behind them - or at least their running-money-making years.

One other note: I don't think it's fair to bash Tony's indoor 300 meter track times by pointing out one below-par effort in Ithaca - I'd hate to think that we're all going to be judged by our worst times (and that was Tony's worst time as a master). Tony's 3:46 1500 outdoors at the Oregon Invite certainly translated to potential sub-4 talent ... What Tony doesn't say is that he couldn't find a meet director to let him into a top class Mile (like the Pre Invite) to help him go after the mark. Jim Sorenson, with his connections to Nike and long-standing relationships with several top meets, shouldn't have the same problem. So we might see an American sub-4 - or at least a new world outdoor M40 record - in the near future.