year lay-off

I had sciatica for a couple of years that kept me from putting together anything more than a few consecutive days of running. I got to the point where I could do 3 or 4 easy, but no more. Which might have been a blessing - I ran easy, made sure the pain didn't flare up again, and then finally got massage that took care of it completely. I took another 4 or 5 months of getting up my mileage without racing over the winter, threw in tempo or fartlek, then got into it in earnest. After a grand total of 8 months from starting back, I was doing cross and track. Sub-elite, but back where I had been.

idealist:

When you got back into the real training, would assume you felt the 4-5 month of mileage prepared you to be able to do some quality sessions.

How often were the tempo and fartlek sessions done? As you felt or a regular weekly interval of at least one or two?

Any advise is helpful = appreciate the response. I would imagine many on this board have suffered long injuries, but would rather bash Regina or plot her against F-H than to talk about training. Training isn't tabloid stuff.

OK, I know that I'm going to get bashed here because my story appeared in RW - but I would like to pitch in to this thread. I suffered a brain aneurysm in 2000 that nearly ended my life. After much time in hospital and then 12 months at home with no physical activity whatsoever, I was cleared to start jogging again last summer. I found that after the initial few months of just getting back into consistent running, the most effective way for me to regain some real fitness was by doing tempo runs. Tempo stuff (along with fartlek) seemed to be very effective in terms of getting back the strength that I used to possess as a fairly decent miler. Obviously, if you are trying to get ready for 800m/1500m you need to do some intense, fast reps on the track. But I think people are often too quick to jump on the track after a break - and would perhaps be better served by doing more tempo runs/fartlek/hills etc.

Yes, remember the story. Only an idiot would bash you telling about that experience.

As you regained some fitness, and the tempo and fartlek got you there, how is your running now? Are you actually able to compete, or just use running as fitness? You had a tough ordeal and I for one would appreciate to know how things have changed for you.

16x,

When I was cleared to run again I set myself the goal of running the Hood To Coast Relay this year with my Atlanta Track Club teammates. It was a race that I had always wanted to experience - and I figured with the emphasis on strength rather than speed, I could get by without doing intense track workouts (surgeon has prohibited any speed work and limited my running to 3-4 days per week). With that in mind, I did one tempo run per week and tried to do some fartlek as well (every 2nd or 3rd week). This was enough to run 15:30, which made me the weakest link on my team (but we ended up scraping through for the win anyways). Will still continue to do some running, but have struggled a little with the urge to run fast and not being able to. I guess you just play the hand you're dealt.

This will be less inspiring than Hilly, with no tabloid value whatsoever, but to answer your question:

I tend to be someone who goes out and tries to run what I think I should, whether I can or not. So the fact that I had to be cautious for a few months in order to run day to day probably helped me from hurting myself otherwise.

That being said, I will confess that periodically in those 4-5 months, I would discover myself doing about 6:00 minute pace or maybe a little faster (I was "supposed" to do 6:30-6:45) for 4 or 5 miles. So to put it in a positive light, I discovered I still had some base speed even after the lay off. I vaguely recall hopping into a street mile race for fun and doing 4:52 off of no speedwork other than the above "slip ups".

When I thought I could handle it, I started throwing in one day of fartlek, and one tempo (20 minutes), per week. But I really concentrated on continuing to build up my mileage. I stayed away from the track until winter drove me inside anyway. By that time I had some confidence the sciatica wouldn't come back (it actually started to once, but I rested a day or so and nipped it in the bud).

If it helps, I got to within a second of my 12 year old 1500m PR by the end of indoor season.

Also got a stress fracture, but hey, I healed up from that faster than the sciatica.

16x, there are good posts from "Hadd" on how to establish a good base. Also JK provides fantastic posts on this as well. Do a search on these guys on both this and the "old" boards.

I have another question, though, if those guys read this. Let's say you're in a situation like 16x here, but you would prefer to get in better shape sooner rather than later. Would it be beneficial or detrimental to do a high ratio of threshold running (let's say 4-5 days of 40min runs at 80-85% Vo2) as opposed to the normal 2-3 days (and the rest being easy runs)?

Hilly & Idealist, good stuff there. It's easy to complain about how bad you've got it until you hear about somebody who got it worse, but handles it better. I liked the quote "I guess you play the hand you're dealt". Very true, and it sounds as though you're playing excellently. You are forgiven (from me, at least) for your RW forays.

Cathy Freeman

Not speaking for Hadd or JK, but I've become leary of too much of a crash course approach. Although if 16x is in his/her early or mid 20's, Lord knows I got away with that sort of thing enough times back then. It won't allow for much of a peak, though. I stand ready to be corrected, though.

By the way, right now I'm trying (AGAIN) to get back to running after having blood clots show up in one leg. First time knocked me out for 2 months, I was just getting back to 40 miles/week, and got hit again. Doctors are mystified, and I'm wondering if there's any runners who have experienced this.

My doctor has given me the OK to run, by the way, so I don't need the Go to a hospital or you will DIE! sort of advice.

Good luck, 16x

I think the guys who responded above have it pretty much right about being patient and establishing base. However, I can offer a different approach. I had knee problems (chondromalacia, tendonitis) which kept me from running for about a year and a half. As I came back, I tried to be very patient -- starting with 5 min every other day, working up to 20min every other day over the course of a couple of months. This was to avoid recurrence of the knee problems, not for any fitness reasons.

Once I was running 3-4 days a week for 20-30min (call it 15 miles a week), I felt like my knee was better. I was in my last year of university, and really wanted to take my last chance to run for my school, so I decided to try to get fit fast, not worrying about the long term. I found that running longer than 30min or so bothered my knee, but running fast didn't seem to hurt it, so I started doing tempo stuff and intervals.

Over the course of the next few months, I stepped up the intensity, and raced for my team a few times. I reached a point where I was running three workouts a week and one 30min run. The workouts were a long interval workout (say 5x1600m on grass), a shorter interval workout (say 10x600m on grass), and a hard hill session. After a couple months at around 25 mpw, I raced at cross-country nationals, and came suprisingly close to my placing from two years before, when I'd been healthy. I went on to have a decent track season (6s off my 1500m pb), getting up to 30-35 mpw for a couple of months.

Obviously with that approach, you run into a ceiling of how far you can go. Over the last year and a half, I've built my base back up properly -- and maybe I'd be running faster now if I'd done it in the first place. But for me, getting back to reasonable racing fitness quickly was important due to the specific circumstances, and also kept thoughts of retirement at bay (after a year and half, you start considering it).

Anyway, just thought I'd shed some light on the "wrong" way of doing it. :)

You have all been very helpful and I appreciate your responses. They have been inspirational. I too have thought about quitting so many times over the past year. I hope you all have a great year of running.

Idealist,

Not trying to pre-empt your MD, but if you are not already taking some, consider taking 400iu daily of Vit E. It helped a female friend with clots and some serious varicose veins.

To answer JEH (in thanks for the appreciative words) who is ?impatient? to get in shape.

"Tempo" runs are overrated, and can soon lead to stagnation in performance if done too often. Let me offer an alternative idea...

I believe that no run should be a drag. If a thing is a chore to perform, a bummer to do, you will not keep it up for very long. So, where miles and miles of easy running with a low HR might be the ideal thing for you to do coming back from a long lay-off, it can get to where it is just a complete bore if you are doing it all the time.

Which is wrong. Running is something we love, isn?t it? It should definitely be something we look forward to doing. You can try all the tricks like running in nice areas and with slower friends and wearing a walkman... But they don?t work. There?s no buzz. No blast like having completed a run that fills the soul for the next week.

Coming back from a lay-off, you are obviously not able to jump back into full training. So, think about it like this; first you need to get fit enough to be able to do the training that will get you fitter. Like steps on a ladder. First you need some general fitness, and you need to have got back into the habit of running daily again (sometimes the hardest thing).

I am assuming here that you have no latent injuries that preclude hard running.

Now the following advice will not get you race fast, (Idealist is right about there being no real short-cuts) but it should serve to keep the morale high while increasing your general fitness to where you can increase the amount of running you can handle per week (and get you to a stage where you are back to your own ?full training?, whatever that means to you).

1. Find a nice 3-mile stretch of road / park that you know you could boogie on. No serious uphills. No heavy traffic. And definitely no traffic lights to cross. Maybe it?s even a little downhill overall to help you a bit. You?ve figured it?s maybe 18-20 mins hard running. No need to measure it. Warm up with some 10 mins easy jog and just go for it. Try and run as fast as you can for the whole 3 miles without having to seriously back off the pace at any time. Walk/jog home. Run this once per week and try and improve your time at least every 2 weeks. There is no definite day for this run (like every Tues), just be sure you are ready when you do it.

2. Plan an interesting route that should take 75-90 mins tops. Jog the first 5-10 mins to get into the groove and then run a strong pace you are sure you can manage to hold for the whole run without having to back off at any time. Run this once per week.

3. Lastly, find a route that takes about 45 mins. As usual, warm up with an easy 5-8 mins jog and run strong for the rest of the way. This run can be somewhat hilly. Short, steep inclines are better than long killing drags. Work the uphills and slow jog the downhills. Run this once per week.

Do no other runs the rest of the week. Just take as many days off to recover to be able to do the next run. Note, you can have 8-day weeks if you need to for the first 3 weeks.

Do not run the same run twice in a row.

Run only these 3 runs per week for the first 3 weeks. On week 4, add in a fourth run; an easy jog of 45 mins. On week 7, add a fifth run into your week; a second easy jog day of 45 mins. On week 10 add in a third easy jog day of 45 mins for your sixth day.

After 10 weeks, you can once again call yourself a serious runner. You will not be race fit. Indeed you can still be as much as 1-2 mins off your 10k PR, but you will now be fit enough to deal with a training schedule that more seriously aims you towards your particular racing ambitions.

To paraphrase Churchill: This is not the end. This is not even the beginning of the end. It is just the end of the beginning.

Thanks for the Vitamin E thingy - I'm already on Coumadin (or Warfarin), so I'll have to check with the doc about it.

I echo the "keep it interesting" comments. Even during my post injury "ramp-up", I caught myself dropping down to some quick miles, and lovin' it.

i'm trying to do the comeback thing myself right now, and you're right it's the worst. but taking it slow, and not rushing into workouts or pounding every run will help. this has been really tough for me, but my coach (marcus o's.) makes me wear a heart rate monitor on my off days so that i don't work myself into the ground again (i had mono, then achilles tend., then anemia). so the whole, hard on hard days and easy on easy days has been a learning experience. i'm going to continue with it until i have at least a season or two of consistancy again. i hope and pray that you have the best return to the sport that you can. it can be done, it just takes willpower, patience, and intelligence. good luck. - scottyT

I am currently in the same boat as you. For the past two months I have utilized a new plan to accelerate my return to fitness and it is...

Cross Training! (OK, let the flaming begin.)

I have been riding a mountain bike for 45-60 minutes in lieu of "junk miles" and recovery runs. In all honesty, it beats running everyday and my legs feel great. The added benefit is that my hill running feels vastly improved. The only caveat I have is to make sure that you ride moderate gears at a high (90 rpm) rate of turnover. I also wear an HRM to keep the effort honest. For the time being, I just run a long effort (currently about 11 miles) and two track sessions. I am adding an additional running day every two weeks as I get more fit.

Hadd - not sure if you will see this as it has been a couple of days. Thank you for the thorough/thoughtful response. Also, you are very good at describing the various types of runs. Without naming a specific pace, I am very clear about the effort levels you prescribed. You and JK are both very similar, and I am hoping that you both find that complimentary. At least, this is how I would take it.

Now, about the post...

A "strong" 75-90min run after not running for some time? This sounds somewhat oxy-moronic to me.

I like the prescription, and I agree that just getting into the routine can be the hardest thing and that keeping it fun is important. However, you've got to be kidding that after 10 weeks (in which one is just starting to run 6 days/week... 50m tops) one could expect to be within 2min of their 10K PR. Are you saying after another 10weeks @6days/week, or what? If you mean to tell me that talented runners get this fast off of so little work, then this might be my last post ever (smile).

OK. Let's say someone does these 10 (or 20) weeks and is looking towards running a solid (certainly not good) marathon in 2:20 or so (you determine the time it takes)... what would be your regimen then? Let me know if you require more information.

Thanks again, I really do appreciate it. I understand I am asking a lot here, so I am obviously not looking for an immediate answer. Others are welcome to chime in their thoughts, but more credible answers will be from those who have coached awhile, have run low 2:20s or faster, have been running for a long time and have been around the block a few times, or who have strong physio backgrounds. Thanks.

So, Portland, you're a HRM owning cross-trainer, eh? Sheesh...

JEH,

I have always found the pace to be the problem in distance runs, rather than the distance. I am confident you can walk for 90 mins. And that if you go at glacial-pace you can jog for 90 mins... no doubt there are one or two other gears above that.

I chose to write "strong 90 min run" to contrast it with "jog for 90 mins". I am sure you can tell the difference, and will agree that there IS a difference. I just asked you (the runner) to hold the best pace possible for the whole way without having to back off to recover.

If it is your first run in a year, your best pace might BE a jog. Fine. I have no problem with that.

Obviously the longer you have been away from running, the less pertinent / suitable will be my advice. You never stated this, although now that I look closer, you did say "in a situation like 16x".

Age has a lot to do with it too. If you or 16x is a young teenager then just good general health should enable you to run for 90 mins, especially if you or he has some form of running (sports) background in the not-too-distant past.

Of course if you are 35 + and away from any exercise for 9 months or more... it does get more difficult and my advice above becomes less suitable. In which case, disregard it with my blessings.

My prime aim was to give an example of a schedule which would include the type of runs which would motivate most runners to continue to train until they again reach the point that they run every day without thinking, "should I run today?" I know the above schedule accomplishes that, but it is not a one-size-fits-all. It does need a nip or a tuck here and there to be tailored to individual tastes... but the basic outline is solid.

To go from "getting back into training" to "training for sub-2.20" is a different kettle of fish. Are we talking hypothetically? Or is this something that could happen?

More info would definitely be required (as I guess I should have asked for, above).

As a rule of thumb, bearing in mind that there are a lot of pitfalls along the way in the training, I believe that you would really have to have something like 14.15-14.30 / 5k or 29.30-30.00 / 10k in your (not-too-distant) background for a sub-2.20 to be on the cards, even with the best training you can find. And even those times would not guarantee eventual sub-2.20 success.

Slower than those times, I guess it is still possible (see Paula Radcliffe with 30.01 and 2.18). But even her 30.01 was in piss-poor conditions, and many expect her to knock a serious chunk off it next time. So, 29.30-30.00 is a pretty solid benchmark for sub-2.20.

This help?

Good stuff. This is what the board should be all about. I'm happy to see knowledgable and supportive posts.

JEH - Yeah, I know. Rest assured, I won't be racing in a Speedo like that dude in New Haven.

This entire post has been a wealth of great information to me. Seems like I knew how to train when I was healthy, but there is not a lot of information on how to train when your layoff has been more than 3 months. Thanks