Ryan Hall's longer tempo runs

Many top coaches have their athletes doing longer tempo runs. For true marathon training 12-16 mile tempos are very common. They aren't done at the same intensity as shorter tempos but generally at marathon pace or a bit faster or some combination. This is one of the best ways to get prepared for the long hard effort. As far as i know, most of the elites do them.

the guy that placed 2nd to Hall in that Half Marathon ran a 1:02 which came out to a 4:45 mile pace per mile. Ryan almost tempos at that pace.

i seem to remember ian dobson saying he does the longer tempos at 5:00 pace, which is at the same altitude as hall, correct?

from what i've gathered the badgers do thier longer tempos with the majority of the miles 5:10-5:20 with a mile or two around 4:40. i think they change it up some and it seems the middle of the pack badgers would obviously be off the pace somewhat the entire time.

The longer, intense tempo run seems to be the cornerstone of Hall's training. I remember seeing repeated interviews dating back to when he was in high school where he mentioned doing 10 mile tempo runs at altitude at crazy paces.

As his dad mentioned in the flocast interview, Ryan ran a 10 mile tempo in 48:55 back in high school (in Big Bear at high altitude).

I know for Wisconsin (especially for Simon B.) the 10 mile tempo's are a cornerstone of training as well, but not at nearly the same intensity as Hall's.

I'd like to hear more on how often he does them.

Watch the Ian Dobson flocast interview and you get the feeling that Ryan hammers a lot of his training (seems works for him, but it destroyed Ian in 2006).

I think with 10 years of long hard tempo's behind him Ryan will be a natural for the marathon. Smart move trying one now while he is young.

Read the post by Renato here, where he talks about the need for long fast distance runs.

http://www.letsrun.com/forum/flat_read.php?thread=1363335&page=1

Using your 10k speed as a reference, he prescribes a variety of workouts.

In it he mentions the 90% runs to increase "support for aerobic power". You can do this as short as 10k and up to 20k. Assuming Ryan is in about 27:15 shape now, his 90% speed would be about 4:50 pace, and he is doing that for 20k- at altitude.

It seems Hall is well beyond half marathon training, and is more than ready for a full marathon.

I believe Houston is merely a nice plum Ryan happened to nail down on the way to much bigger things.

i am in high school and i run 10 mile tempos (fairly hilly)

I have gone from about an hour to just under fifty minutes

it is truly great training, and I have put on muscle like you wouldn't believe

also, i no longer get breathless at race paces-interval taining on the track never did that

mostly due to the 10 mile tempos my 3 mile time has dropped about 4 minutes in a few months from 17:30 to about 13:30

I know all of this seems a bit incredible but its true

[quote]farklet wrote:

i seem to remember ian dobson saying he does the longer tempos at 5:00 pace, which is at the same altitude as hall, correct?

I think they have been running together.

connecticut hs runner wrote:

mostly due to the 10 mile tempos my 3 mile time has dropped about 4 minutes in a few months from 17:30 to about 13:30

I know all of this seems a bit incredible but its true

No, it's false. Really. Honest.

We do not have a Connecticut high schooler running the equivalent of a 14 minute 5k for a tempo run. Please try your trolling again with something slightly more believable or remeasure your "3 mile" course

very fast wrote:

connecticut hs runner wrote:

mostly due to the 10 mile tempos my 3 mile time has dropped about 4 minutes in a few months from 17:30 to about 13:30

I know all of this seems a bit incredible but its true

No, it's false. Really. Honest.

We do not have a Connecticut high schooler running the equivalent of a 14 minute 5k for a tempo run. Please try your trolling again with something slightly more believable or remeasure your "3 mile" course

No kidding - I doubt CT even has an open or college runner that fast right now.

Back to the original subject, the long tempo runs have been part of Dr. Vigil's system for years. The runs go up to 60 minutes, or from 6-10 miles @85-87% MHR. For marathoners, the runs go up to 12-13 miles, and this is at altitude.

Please say "curious" one more time.

I'm curious. Why?

the following is from the tegankamp? blog and does show they are less intense than what hall/dobson are supposedly doing. also i think gabe reported times from his ten mile tempos last winter just over 5min pace. i previously had saw the splits in a henry dennis run-insight.com journal.

By the end of that month, I started doing progression runs with some of the other post-collegiate guys around. I did one of these runs a week, usually working down from 5:50 to 5:00 pace on a 10-miler. Last year I complete maybe only three of these 10-mile runs; they would trash my legs. Now is a whole different story--they are a walk in the park.

One week, our coach, Jerry Schumacher, let us really go out and hammer one of these, and it turned into a tempo. Here are the splits: 2:54 (first 800), 5:41, 5:28, 5:22, 5:19, 5:16, 5:09, 5:05, 4:54, 4:49, 2:21 (last 800). Simon Bairu, Stu Eagon, Matt Downin and I all finished,

85-87% MHR is slower than marathon pace. These are not what Hall is doing. His appear to be Mpace or quicker (4:50 = 2:06 marathon). Since those runs are at altitude and are said to equal 4:40 at sea-level, we're talking of 2:02 pace. No way this is 85-87% MHR (as per Vigil).

why is tegenkamp amped?

that's like his marathon pace????

These guys are limited on the speed side, not the stamina side. 12 miles at 450 <1h run is very reasonable for a 1315 track guy moving up w/ aptitude, and in the best shape of his life.

Mahon is trying to squeeze in as much quality as possible

for the total workload. Im afraid though TM has Hall in a corner now, but it is for sure a damn good corner. He cant raise his total miles and he sure cant add quality.

To run faster he'll actually need to cut miles as periodization or otherwise. Much slower than 530 pace and this

Hall is wasting his time, or just out of bed w/ three layers of sweats on.

Saskatchewan wrote:

As his dad mentioned in the flocast interview, Ryan ran a 10 mile tempo in 48:55 back in high school (in Big Bear at high altitude).

.

As we all know thats bullshit. He would have gone pro right away if he had that ability. He may have been able to run 4855 (although probably not) but certainly not as a tempo! Some people through that term tempo around too much when they know its not a tempo...kinda like the mcdougal tempo that was crazy but later took it back saying it was a lot harder then a tempo and that he just called it that.

To run a actual 4855 tempo in hs..at altitude he would have destroyed Ritz and webb at any distance 2mile and up breaking every hs record.

marathon mind, you say Renato says use your 10k pace as a reference for all those other workouts in that other thread. but he says 5k. unless he corrected himself somewhere and i didn't see it. cuz those workouts at those percentages of 5k pace seem way too hard. did he correct hiimself and say 10k pace???

he would be doing tempos at MP (2:07); at c-level the pace would be 4:46 (2:05-6). try for yourself 2 & 3 x 5 miles @ MP.