Ryan Hall's run is certainly a breakthrough for him. But should we really be shocked? When I read the news, I was more relieved than shocked, good for him I thought, now perhaps others will be inspired by that run.
The numbers of non Africans doing World class performances are bound to be very low because the sheer number of African runners who are desperate to make it means that many of them will succeed, but it's wrong to think that they are better than the rest of us.
hard work doesn't guarantee success. it guarantees a chance at success.
Been training in both Kenya, USA and Europe. Haven't seen much of the desperate Kenyans while training in Kenya :) Great people, but no harder training there than anywhere else.
Marius
Desperate to escape extreme poverty surely?
It's the number of hard training East Africans and the competition between them, that gives a huge statistical advantage to the chances that they will dominate distance running.
What are the chances of East Africans dominating cross country skiing?
talent is hard work wrote:
African runners who are desperate to make it means that many of them will succeed, but it's wrong to think that they are better than the rest of us.
Actually it merely reflects knowledge of world-best performance lists and world record lists year after year
its also wrong to think men are stronger than women, and that cats cannot bark.
There are many, many factors at play here. But in the Rift Valley, a competitive and self-driven person who wants to do try something with a possibility of becoming famous and/or decently well off doesn't see too many options other than running. In suburban/rural America, running is fairly far down the ladder--besides other sports, you've got law, medicine, politics, business, music, etc.
In other words, I think there are a lot more American kids with undiscovered running talent than there are Kenyans or Ethiopians. There's a whole lot more to it, but it's undeniable that XC has a decidedly different social cache among Kenya's teenagers than ours.
The lack of money that we talk about that keeps American kids out of the sport makes Kenyans mega rich.
Herr Bakke ar det du?
Marius wrote:
Been training in both Kenya, USA and Europe. Haven't seen much of the desperate Kenyans while training in Kenya :) Great people, but no harder training there than anywhere else.
Marius
Marius, for the most part you have been training with guys who have "made it". However, it's hard to underming the PC brainwashing that has been pushed on Western peoples for several decades. The E. Africans have a higher percentage of people with world class potential (who are concentrated and very inbred, truth be told). Couple this with high numbers of participation and the scant interest one sees in the West, and you'll see very few top Westerners. Look at Britain. The number of kids competing in XC is 10% of what is was 25 years ago.
Birds can fly. I suppose if I tried really hard I could fly too. Since talent is just hard work I could probably have written a symphony at age 5 or been a grandmaster in chess at 14, if only I'd put in the work. Talent is a myth! I think I'll go record a platinum rap album now...
If you logically admit that E. Africans are humans, and that they are physiologically capable of running the performances they achieve without unnatural enhancements, then you have to admit that there is no reason why a caucasian human cannot be found physiologically capable of doing the same. There might be LESS caucasians, but the possibility must exist that there can be at least one. ... And that he/she does the training.
Forget..
want
need
culture
..and all that other bull. It's about physical traits. Blacks are built differently. You've really never noticed that?
Poverty is not limited to Kenyans of the Rift Valley.
Why dont they do another sport tat pays alot more? Im sure the 15th ranked Kenyan in the 5K who run 13:05 makes a lot less money than the 15th ranked tennis player.
I have trained with some world class rynners from Morroco, Kenya and Ethiopia. Most of them did not train especially hard. They were able to put down increadeble work outs on the track however.
It was a great run by Hall, but there would have been 20 Kenyans and Ethiopinas ahead of Ryan Hall had they run.
Then why doesn't some American out of the thousands who participate, simply train harder and become world record holder. Gee, I guess they didnt think of that.
To be truely world class as a distance runner today you need four things:
1) crazy talent
2) hard work
3) great coaching/program/philosophy
4) mental toughness
Lack any of those four and you'll not likely make it to the world class level.
Having those four things does not depend in any way shape or form on your color or national origin.
Someone from any culture can have these four elements.
I am so sick and tired of hearing people talk about "The Africans" and using there national origin as an excuse for being beaten. Give me a break.
City Boy wrote:
I have trained with some world class rynners from Morroco, Kenya and Ethiopia. Most of them did not train especially hard. They were able to put down increadeble work outs on the track however.
It was a great run by Hall, but there would have been 20 Kenyans and Ethiopinas ahead of Ryan Hall had they run.
Then why doesn't some American out of the thousands who participate, simply train harder and become world record holder. Gee, I guess they didnt think of that.
This is the most ridiculous propaganda I've heard in a long time.
Which is it do they not train hard or do the put down incredible track workouts? Maybe they were training smarter than you? Easy on the easy days and hard on the hard days.....
There are only a couple of people in the world that stood much of a change at beating Hall on Sunday. Not 20. His time is in the top 10 all-time and he did it solo, in the rain and desimating the Olympic Silver Medalist.
As to your last statement, looks like Hall may be close to doing that. Hall, Goucher, Abdi, Webb, Ritz and others are cementing themselves as top World Ranked runners. But only very few people ever hold world records in there life time. Far less than 1% of the truely elite.
See my previous post.
Mr. Marathon wrote:
To be truely world class as a distance runner today you need four things:
1) crazy talent
2) hard work
3) great coaching/program/philosophy
4) mental toughness
Lack any of those four and you'll not likely make it to the world class level.
Having those four things does not depend in any way shape or form on your color or national origin.
Someone from any culture can have these four elements.
I am so sick and tired of hearing people talk about "The Africans" and using there national origin as an excuse for being beaten. Give me a break.
Erm, Africa is not a country. Let's be specific for a change and recognise that we are really only talking about north and east Africans. And we could get even more specific than that. I don't see many Kenyans or Ethiopians playing in the NFL, English Premiership, NBA, etc...
I'll explain for you.
They were able to put down track times because of talent. Easy days might be running or not. So if its a matter of HARD work, then they were well below thier potential. Maybe your right in that training "smarter" is not really training harder. So two people who train the same smart way will be sepearted based on talent alone.
Strange that those desperate East Africans seem to dominate even when they become citezens of or are born in other countries and dont have it so tough anymore.
You would be foolish to believe certain peoples are not more talented for certain sports, but you would also be foolish to give up hope, there are always exceptions.
So Hall ,Goucher, Webb, Ritz are the first Ameriacns to train hard? Maybe just the good American runners are the only Americans that train hard?
Mr. Marathon wrote:
To be truely world class as a distance runner today you need four things:
1) crazy talent
2) hard work
3) great coaching/program/philosophy
4) mental toughness
5) doubles
Obviously it's not just hard work that seperates the East Africans from the rest of the world. They work hard and they are geneticly gifted.
By just saying "hard work" is what seperates them from us makes you thingk that your typical Kenyan could be Mr. Universe if he just worked out hard enough. No matter how many weights they would lift, they would never be as big as those guys.