Yesterday in New York at the Armory Holiday Classic spike-check desk, they had a sign banning 'pins' (i.e. needle spikes) and Christmas Trees (compression spikes). Only 1/4" pyramids would be allowed.
I was under the impression that the Christmas-tree spike was designed specifically for modern synthetic tracks, such as the Mondo track at the Armory. Is the Christmas-tree spike really bad for Mondo tracks, or is the Armory just confused?
every mondo surface i've raced here in ohio hasn't allowed the christmas trees. Seems pretty normal to me.
I think it depends on the meet. The Christmas Tree spikes were designed for surfaces like mondo, but I think they generally prefer people wearing regular spikes because they don't want to tear the surface up. I don't think the compression spikes really tear up the track very much, but its not my track. The 1/4" have always worked fine for me, so no biggie.
Yeah, christmas trees cut up the track
track chick wrote:
Yeah, christmas trees cut up the track
that's hardly a conviction for the christmas tree spikes. anybody have any real information?
Forgive my ignorance, but are xmas trees the multi-tiered-looking cylindrical spikes? It's hard to imagine those being damaging (more than pyramids).
i ran high school meets at the armory for four years and christmas tree and needle spikes were never allowed. EVER.
With the pyramid, just a point goes into the track, below the surface. With the christmas tree, a wider amount of metal or ceramic spike punctures the track. They cause more damage and meet organisers don't like them.
Seriously, I'd like to hear some information from someone with inside knowledge of track construction. I've always been confused as to why so many tracks and meets ban xmas tree spikes when everything I've read says that these spikes are the least damaging to the surface. Also, almost all fixed-pin spikes use xmas trees. Why would Nike and others put those in if most tracks ban them?
rankler wrote:
Seriously, I'd like to hear some information from someone with inside knowledge of track construction. I've always been confused as to why so many tracks and meets ban xmas tree spikes when everything I've read says that these spikes are the least damaging to the surface. Also, almost all fixed-pin spikes use xmas trees. Why would Nike and others put those in if most tracks ban them?
The christmas tree spike elements are designed not to penetrate the surface, Mondo recommends their use on their SuperX surface to prevent damage.
Excerpt from Mondo's technical data section:
"When spikes are used on the surface, IAAF regulations notwithstanding, Mondo believes that the length and shape of spikes allowed should be controlled as part of good facility management practices. Track surfaces are designed to be spike resistant, but abuse will cause permanent damage. Besides, Mondo recommends use of maximum 6mm long “Pyramid” or “Christmas-Tree” spikes for best athletic performance on the Super X surface. This will also aid in reducing the possibility of excessive damage to the track surface. Pin spikes and Needle spikes are not recommended. "
It's not hard to wear w/e spikes you want at the armory. Just ignore the spike check and race. They never look on the track to see if you had your spikes checked.
They check the spikes for the scrap races. Anybody in a championship race usually does not have to deal with the spike check table.
Phil. wrote:
rankler wrote:Seriously, I'd like to hear some information from someone with inside knowledge of track construction. I've always been confused as to why so many tracks and meets ban xmas tree spikes when everything I've read says that these spikes are the least damaging to the surface. Also, almost all fixed-pin spikes use xmas trees. Why would Nike and others put those in if most tracks ban them?
The christmas tree spike elements are designed not to penetrate the surface, Mondo recommends their use on their SuperX surface to prevent damage.
Excerpt from Mondo's technical data section:
"When spikes are used on the surface, IAAF regulations notwithstanding, Mondo believes that the length and shape of spikes allowed should be controlled as part of good facility management practices. Track surfaces are designed to be spike resistant, but abuse will cause permanent damage. Besides, Mondo recommends use of maximum 6mm long “Pyramid” or “Christmas-Tree” spikes for best athletic performance on the Super X surface. This will also aid in reducing the possibility of excessive damage to the track surface. Pin spikes and Needle spikes are not recommended. "
Excellent information. Going from there, though, why do so many track facilities disregard this and disallow xmas trees?
The christmas tree spike elements are designed not to penetrate the surface, Mondo recommends their use on their SuperX surface to prevent damage.
Excerpt from Mondo's technical data section:
"When spikes are used on the surface, IAAF regulations notwithstanding, Mondo believes that the length and shape of spikes allowed should be controlled as part of good facility management practices. Track surfaces are designed to be spike resistant, but abuse will cause permanent damage. Besides, Mondo recommends use of maximum 6mm long “Pyramid” or “Christmas-Tree” spikes for best athletic performance on the Super X surface. This will also aid in reducing the possibility of excessive damage to the track surface. Pin spikes and Needle spikes are not recommended. "[/quote]
Excellent information. Going from there, though, why do so many track facilities disregard this and disallow xmas trees?[/quote]
Because Christmas tree spikes are DIFFERENT, and to most officials, DIFFERENT = ILLEGAL. I have had several arguments with officials where I race often, particularly with the use of Nike's permanent Xmas tree spikes and have had to quote the exact same rule, as well as studies from Mondo, etc. revealing Xmas tree spikes do LESS damage to the track.
Back in college we raced our DMR at the Armory, and I was allowed to use my Nike Ventulus spikes (permanent x-mas tree spikes) with no problem. They even checked them and gave me a pretty green sticker. However, at ECACs later in the year at Bowdoin they were pretty serious about checking and didn't let me wear them. I had to wear flats, which weren't much fun for the mile.
sounds like someone is declaring war on christmas
Scientologist wrote:
They check the spikes for the scrap races. Anybody in a championship race usually does not have to deal with the spike check table.
That's usually true. I never saw the Armory check anything but the high-school meets. But at Friday's meet (open/masters) you couldn't get to the check-in/wait area without going past the spike table.
I did see a couple of people with Ventuluses (permanent xmas trees) but I don't know whether they got to race in them.
Phil. wrote:rankler wrote:Seriously, I'd like to hear some information from someone with inside knowledge of track construction. I've always been confused as to why so many tracks and meets ban xmas tree spikes when everything I've read says that these spikes are the least damaging to the surface. Also, almost all fixed-pin spikes use xmas trees. Why would Nike and others put those in if most tracks ban them?
The christmas tree spike elements are designed not to penetrate the surface, Mondo recommends their use on their SuperX surface to prevent damage.
Excerpt from Mondo's technical data section:
"When spikes are used on the surface, IAAF regulations notwithstanding, Mondo believes that the length and shape of spikes allowed should be controlled as part of good facility management practices. Track surfaces are designed to be spike resistant, but abuse will cause permanent damage. Besides, Mondo recommends use of maximum 6mm long “Pyramid” or “Christmas-Tree” spikes for best athletic performance on the Super X surface. This will also aid in reducing the possibility of excessive damage to the track surface. Pin spikes and Needle spikes are not recommended. "
Thank you for this. I will look for this on the Mondo website and alert Dr. Norbert Sander, chairman of the Armory Foundation.