Rabbitless Grand Prix Final 3,000 meters

When I see results like this, I always wonder, did *all* of these guys really think they could outkick everyone else? A random thought: How do you think a 1:43 type 800m guy could do in that race? Chill out and run 72s for a while and then close in 1:57/50/24 maybe?

Even I could have stayed with them for most of that race. They should be embarassed.

Those chickenshits sucks ass big time. The spectators deserve a refund from those joggers. Put Paula in that race, she would embarass those money-munching scrubs.

It's like Ben Jipcho used to say in the old ITA days. "Money doesn't make someone run fast, it makes them run first." It's easy to call someone gutless until you consider that they do this for a living. And sometimes that living extends to a family or even an entire village.

I think they did close in about those times - the last lap was reported as 50.7, and the winner (Chebii?) didn't start moving until about 230 to go.

"Even I could have stayed with them for most of that race."

Who cares? You still would have come dead last by a huge margin. It was a 3000m, not a 2800m race.

If you want to see a 7:30 race, put a rabbit in. Oh wait, what about the monthly letsrun thread about how rabbits destroy the sport and are boring to watch?

I guess we all want to see some great tragic hero of yore, who has such personal pride in his "work of art" races that he's willing to haul ass at the front of the pack, then get blown by in the kick, to make sure the race is "honest". We would all respect his seventh place, and send him cash donations to make up for the prize money he never wins.

And to the guy who wondered whether they all thought they could outkick each other -- hell yeah! Once you don't believe in your kick anymore, it's time to hang it up -- or move up in distance... :)

8:33.4 is still 4:35.4/mile avg.

I would much rather watch the drama and tactics of this race to most of the GP meets on tv, where they string out in a line from the gun and time trial. BORING... Track may become more popular if the emphasis on time was reduced.

Art S

You statement may be true; however, someone should have

had enough heart, balls, or guts to run a decent race. I

was a 800m runner who when running against All-Americans (1500m - 10000m) in 8000m X-Country if they didn't push the pace I would. I can't stand running below your capabilities

and if your going to beat me-then by all thats HOLY your going to have to earn it. The majority of Golden GP and

major races wouldn't need rabbits if more athletes had

that mentality. I mean look at our Americans also the last few years at the men's 800m and 1500m time at USATF Championships are humilating.

Vipam

My best 8000m was 26:24 after college and I used the same

strategy and it paid off (Not too bad for an 800m guy).

In my last post my aim was to say today athletes are

to concerned with rabbits, placing, and pay. Seb Coe,

Abdi Bile, Steve Cram, Alberto Cova, Dick Beardsly (mispelled), Juma Ikangaa, Said Aouita and John Ngugi etc

all took more chances in their careers than are SUPERSTAR

distancemen today. Yes they had tactical races; however,

I never witnessed or heard of a race with Cram, Aouita,

Ngugi or any of the others that ran 3000m win in 8 min

and 33 secs, thats GUTLESS!

Vipam

"If you want to see a 7:30 race, put a rabbit in. Oh wait, what about the monthly letsrun thread about how rabbits destroy the sport and are boring to watch?

I guess we all want to see some great tragic hero of yore, who has such personal pride in his 'work of art' races that he's willing to haul ass at the front of the pack, then get blown by in the kick, to make sure the race is 'honest'. We would all respect his seventh place, and send him cash donations to make up for the prize money he never wins.

And to the guy who wondered whether they all thought they could outkick each other -- hell yeah! Once you don't believe in your kick anymore, it's time to hang it up -- or move up in distance... :)"

I believe that your analysis is a bit facile. Although it is certainly possible, I don't believe that all of the guys in this race believed that they could outkick everyone else. More to the point, I don't believe that they all felt that their own chances of winning or placing highly were maximized by jogging with the pack until the last several hundred meters. (Admittedly, that can -- in rare instances -- be an optimal strategy for all of the runners in a race, particularly where the runners are very closely matched and where there are strong winds on the track. El G's time in the 1,500 -- along with the wind readings on Montgomery's 100 -- suggests to me, however, that the winds were not that strong here.) Sammy K., for example, usually seems to know when he needs to push the pace early.

I'm frankly a little suspicious of this race, and wonder whether there were any express or implied understandings among some or all of the participants about the level of effort that they were willing to expend. It seems a little too much like an "All-Star" game in the U.S., in which all of the participants understand that the main goal is get through the competition with as little wear and tear as possible without completely offending the audience.

In reply to oldguy...

Admittedly my analysis was a bit facile. The truth is, I would have found that 3km a bit boring to watch until the last few laps. I also find rabbitted races where the field strings out in the first lap fairly underwhelming. Like everyone else, I'd prefer to see a great battle, with front runners, surges, and a great kick resulting in fast times.

The point I was trying to make is that runners are doing their best to achieve their goals on a given day. At a GP race (or a high-performance twilight, for that matter), they're going for a fast time -- so they tuck in and follow the rabbit. At a championship race, they're running for place -- and in most circumstances, for virtually everyone (except people with NO kick, who won't make the final anyway in an evenly-matched field, and people so much better than the field that they could win no matter what), sitting and kicking is the best option.

I honestly don't know how to create conditions to encourage these "more exciting" races, instead of the extremes of "jog and kick" or rabbitted time trials. But saying that runners should just have more guts is one of the most idiotic things I've ever heard.

As a last point, I highly doubt the race was rigged. Of course I know it's possible (like that whole steeple thing). But situations like that occur all the time, without any need for collusion -- I've been in similar races in high school, college, and beyond. So in the absence of any evidence, I'll stick with Occam's Razor and assume the simplest explanation: no one wanted to lead.

Fair enough, Ferris. I think we are substantially in agreement, although I am probably a bit more suspicious about the extent to which these guys were willing to run their hearts out to beat one another today. Like you, I don't believe that the finishing order was rigged.

My thoughts:

(1) INTERESTING, that when the WOMEN race a rabbitless race, they seem to go out FASTER than if there was no rabbit!

(2) This result reminds me of the 2000 Olympic Men's 5km final when some of the mid-race laps went as slow as 72.

(3) Must have been one helluva last lap.

jason

The problem is that these guys simply don't know what to do when there isn't a pacemaker. Get rid of rabbits and they will have to learn how to race properly and the events will be more exciting. And it is true that at the moment women's distnace races are far more interesting to watch than men's.

Then WHY is it, that when there is no pacemaker in Women's races, they go out so fast?

I saw some track meet from France on TV about a month ago. Check this out: The women went out at 60.x for the first lap of the 1500!!! No rabbit!

In the 1992 Olympics, the Womens and the Men's 1500 Finals were exactly the same time at 800 meters: 2:08!

Jason

GOOD JOB Jason. Very interesting.

Paul Tergat must have to learn how to keep pace with his rabbits.

I think they go out fast because in women's races front running is still an 'acceptable' tactic to use. As there isn't the same depth as in men's races a decent female athlete can burn off most of the field by going out at a fast pace. Personally, I would love to see the the return of front running in men's races.