Ohio Collegiate Programs

the oac schools are good if you like the small school atmosphere. Heidelberg (20th) Mount Union (24th) and Ohio Northern (32nd) just competed at the DIII national championships. Otterbein is another in the OAC that has a very good tradition.

the oac schools are good if you like the small school atmosphere. Heidelberg (20th) Mount Union (24th) and Ohio Northern (32nd) just competed at the DIII national championships. Otterbein is another in the OAC that has a very good tradition.

I'd be looking at Ohio State, Kent State, Cincinatti, and Miami, probably in that order.

There are some very solid choices in Ohio for distance programs.

Div I - there are a few decent ones. Miami and Ohio State would lead the pack but both have had their share of ups and downs with regard to development.

Cincinatti has ran consistant over the years but they don't seem to get much better after that intial jump. They don't appear like they will ever be an NCAA threat but they do run well on that state level.

Be careful of the following:

Youngstown State has been getting worse and worse every year. Their coach is quick to throw money at recruits. Development doesn't appear to happen much.

Akron has a new coach that was mainly a sprint coach before. The guys are cool and hard workers but they would tell you the same thing.

OU just cannot seem to put a full year of consistancy together. Some quality runners there, maybe with time they will become competive like in the old days.

Kent has a new coach as well but there guys fizzled out hard by the end of outdoors last year. They are getting some solid recruits. Hopefully they will run better when it counts down the road.

Bowling Green doesn't have men's track and their men's xc team is not pathetic, but isn't really competitive either.

Toledo also doesn't have men's track

Dayton has had a great recruiting class but a lot has yet to be said about being able to have their athletes ready when it counts.

Wright State hardly even has a program.

Div II

Ashland is probably the best non-division I team, other than Malone. New coach that is motivated and is getting a solid recruiting class. Just missed making nationals by 16 points.

Findlay doesn't have much of a men's team. The women's team did have a big year this year though.

Tiffin has a new old coach that has gotten results in the past. They finished 9th, behind Ashland at Regionals, about 100 points back.

Div III

Mount Union has been a solid team over the years. Their distance coach left before this year though and the team faultered hard by seasons end. Solid recruits and usually good development.

Ohio Northern has been a solid team over the years and has a newer coach that is motivated. They qualifed for nationals this year and surprised many by beating out Mount at regionals. They had a terrible national meet, last in the field but made good progress just getting there.

Heidelburg is another team that has a newer coach I believe that is getting solid results. They made large improvements throughout the season and stunned everyone by making nationals. Show a lot of promise.

Otterbein has had good success in the past but this was clearly a rebuilding year. Coach appears to know how to improve his runners.

Case Western has been a building program over the years and put together a great season this year. Their women's team had a monster season. Coach is a bit over the top at races but that doesn't seem to slow the team down.

Ohio Wesleyan may be on the move with the recently acquired assistant coach. He did big things out on the east coast at Stonehill.

Baldwin Wallace used to be a competitive program but have since lost their distance coach and things have slowly gone hill. They usually get solid recruits.

There are several other Div III schools but they are not worthy of my time to break down right now.

NAIA

Malone is the top program that is not Div I. They usually get solid recruits and there is some solid improvement from time to time. A lot of fluff surrounds the program.

Cedarville has had some good runners from time to time but this year they put it together and had a good showing at NAIA nationals, placing in front of Malone. Usually get some decent recruits.

Shawnee State had a solid year this year. They have a motivated coach and have shown some good improvements. They just missed the NAIA champs.

Not sure of any other NAIA teams in Ohio.

The order of the toughest to qualify to nationals from Ohio Schools:

Div I

Div II

Div III

NAIA

I ran for Walsh Univ. and had a great experience there. Great coach who has has been there over 25 years and knows his stuff. He coaches every event and has had his share of All Americans. He goes after student athletes, not athletes. A large percent of his distance guys usually end up Academic A-A. Dan has a masters in exercise physiology and is head of the PE department. He was AD at one time as well. He has had many of his athletes improve greatly.

North Canton is a great area and the campus is good sized and in a suburban area. Just a short hop to Canton or Akron. They will be putting in a new track across the street on the land that Hoover donated to them. This is a great park area for running with wooded trails and the Stark County meet is held there. They do CC workouts in the park across the street and have access to 3 golf courses less than a warm-up jog from campus. No worries about pavement pounding. Coach also takes the guys to the state parks for long runs on weekends and has a camp each fall along with a winter trip to warmer climes.

Classes are small and your professors will be very accessible. Many of my team mates and predecessors are now doctors. They have a great science department and new facilities and the head of the department is a researcher in plastics.

With proximity to Malone you may see them on a run sometimes as their campus is in downtown Canton and near the highway. But they are good guys and we always respected them. Malone has more athletic scholarships than Walsh but Dan knows the different scholarships and can get academic aid for most of his recruits as he goes after student athletes.

I do not believe that Shawnee has a track team. Their cc guys have a track "club".

Good luck with your decision!!

http://www.walsh.edu/content.php?sid=169&cid=14

I don't see any team qualifying for the NCAA Division 1 meet in the next couple years except Ohio State. Definitely had a bad season, but right now, they're at a completely different level than any other distance program in-state.

Wow great review!! I couldnt really ask for a better run down!

What is YSU's problem they are a pretty descent sized school...why are they so bad? Does Folk coach them? Cus he is a pretty sweet runner...

Any teams to watch out for next year? I see Akron like has thier whole top 7 back or something like that and wernt they not that far from 4th at Mac? I know UA and OU were pretty close during the season. I think OU beat UA at MAC but UA beat OU at regionals. But yeah thanks for the run down, i'd prefer to go d1 just for the competition though...we can still talk about the other schools though.

I agree with OSU being the best program. However, it is almost too competitive; how many high schoolers can really expect to get to the level of competitiveness in the Big 10 or NCAA meet? I would say there aren't more than 4-8 guys a year that have any business attempting it (even inside a couple years development). We're lucky in Ohio because the MAC is decent and isn't too far away from high school running. As for the others, it is pretty average (OU,Akron,Bowling Green, Kent, Dayton, etc.)

Yeah really. I wouldnt want to be in the big 10...the competition is just rediculous...

Isnt the MAC a pretty respectable conference or no?

I cannot say why YSU is not doing that well because I don't know the specifics of the situation. Matt Folk is an assistant coach but I don't think he has anything to do with the workouts they run.

Akron does has a lot of the guys coming back but as I mentioned before, their coach might not be quite in the loop and you certainly don't want to be doubting the coaching. The guys are cool though.

OSU gets the best recruits by far so they should be the best team in the state. According to the regional results, they were only 80 points better than Cinci and about 100 points beter than Kent. Better, but not so much better. Cinci and Kent have a far cry from the talent at OSU.

The biggest thing to remember with college running is that it doesn't matter what division you compete in. You can compete most of the season against whoever you want. You can be an NAIA or Div III runner and compete against the best Division I runners during the season. The only time it matters what division you are is at conference, regionals and nationals. If you are not going to be one of the best in the division I conference, regionals or nationals, it doesn't matter what division you are in.

Finding the best place for you athletically, academically and socially should really be what people look for. It is a different answer for everyone.

Personally, if I had a kid that wanted to be the best runner he could be and he wanted to go to an Ohio school, I wouldn't send him to one of the Div I schools. The development just isn't there like it is at the other divisions.

Here is a good breakdown of Div II, III and NAIA. I will add in where the Div I schools in Ohio would fit in the performance lists of these division for better comparison. This was posted on this site a few times now.

Indoors

Div II -

http://www.flashresults.com/flashwest/lists/2006/06d2ind-m.htm

Div III -

http://www.raceberryjam.com/indexid.html

you will have to scroll down a bit to get to the link

NAIA -

http://naia.cstv.com/sports/m-itrack/stats/2005-2006/finallist-men.html

1 mile:

NAIA has top guy (4:05.32)

Div II has 17 (4:10.37) guys before Div III's 6th (4:11.20) and NAIA's 5th (4:10.46)

5k:

Div II has top guy (13:42)

Div II has 9 (14:28) before NAIA's 4th (14:31)

Div II and III have at least 29 and 28 before NAIA's 12th.

Div II and III's depth is similar by 25 - 30th place

Div II has 18 before Div III's 13th

DMR:

II has the fastest time (9:50)

Div II has 11 before Div III's 2nd (10:00.12)

Div III has 17 before NAIA's 2nd (10:10.79)

Things to consider for indoors. NAIA runs the 1k and 3k, in addition to the 4x800 at the indoor national meet. Div II and III runners run the 1k and 3k and occassionaly the 4x800 indoors as well, they just don't have it on the performance list or at the national meet. So basically, the NAIA, Div II and III kids all run the 1k/mile/3k/5k and DMR about the same amount of times indoors.

Outdoors

Div II -

http://www.flashresults.com/flashwest/lists/2006/06d2out-m.htm

Div III -

http://www.raceberryjam.com/indexod.html

scroll down about 1/3 down the page

NAIA -

http://naia.cstv.com/sports/m-otrack/stats/2005-2006/2006finallistmen.html

1500:

Div II has fastest guy (3:42.29)

Div II has 7 before before NAIA's 4th and 19 before NAIA's 12th

Div II has 7 before Div III's 3rd and 27 before Div III's 19th

Div III has 29 before NAIA's 20th

5k:

NAIA has the fastest guy by .06 seconds over Div II (13:34.92 to 13:34.98)

Div II has 10 guys before NAIA's 3rd (14:22) and 19 before NAIA's 5th (14:31)

Div II has 15 guys before Div III's 3rd (14:27)

Div III has 15 before NAIA's 8th

10k:

Div II has the fastest guy (28:02)

Div II has 17 before NAIA's 9th and 28 guys before NAIA's 11th

Div III has 23 before NAIA's 11th

Div II has 8 before Div III's 4th and 17 before Div III's 12th

3k Steeple:

Div II has the fastest guy (8:29)

Div II has 23 guys tied with NAIA's 4th (9:19.24)

Div II has 10 guys before Div III's 5th

Div III has 22 guys before NAIA's

You will find this website to be very helpful however at this moment it doesnt seem to be up and running.

I have said this before in some other posts and I will say it again: overall Ohio does not have very competitive college programs compared to the rest of the country year in and year out.

Top D1 Programs:

1. Miami- I will give them the edge over OSU because they are usually consistent every year and seem to develop talent very well without getting the top talent. It seems they are very young this year and lost 2 talented seniors last year but I am impressed the most on how well the athletes develop. Only negative no indoor track program.

2. OSU- There is no question they get the top talent in the state but as far as I am concern they do not do much with it. Recently some top talent quit for some reason, and the main issue for me is that they are very inconsistent every year. Examples: Jeff See- good freshman cross season, average track season, and ran worst this season and didnt run at end of year. John Ealy- great freshman year and was almost All-American, not very good Sophomore year, made it to nationals as individual this year and performed poorly. Matt Buzek- multiple time state champion has never done anything impressive. Now for the top 2 guys in recent history. Chris Olinger- One of the best years of track in the hisory of a steepler his Junior year, solid XC season, but was no where near his times in the steeple as a senior. Will see what he does this spring and summer though. Rob Meyers- very talented Miler who was tremendous a year or two after he graduated. I believe he got the Olympic A standard in the 1500, but the past 2 years has not done anything. The only conclusion I have for both of these guys is that Gary is just getting them ready for 2008 and everything now is just to get them stonger for that, thus they wont be running faster times. Basically I have mixed feelings about the program. If I was a state champion in Ohio I would definitely look to go out of state.

3. Cincinnati- They are usually very quiet and you do not hear much about them but they seem to be a decent program. They are always top 3 at the All-Ohio and seem to recruit some decent in state talent. However they dont seem to have much of a track program.

4. Kent State- Overall is a decent MAC program. It seems like their program is more geared towards the middle distance group thus being stronger in track then XC, which makes sense. It is very hard to develop raw speed compared to the longer distances. Mike Inge is obviously the face of the program. He was fantastic his first two years but has not progressed at all, actually he has gotten worst. However, I still think he will make some more noise in the 800 and watch out for him in 2008.

D1 Scools to avoid: YSU, Akron, OU, Dayton

YSU: They get decent talent from high school but some how they get worst when they go there

Akron: The only thing positive about their program is their new indoor facility

OU: There runners just seem to be all over the place, some good some bad but nothing consistent.

Dayton: Similar to YSU they ruin some very talented high school kids. I can't believe the Lemon brothers are going there. Dayton did have a solid #1 guy at the start of the season. He did well at All-Ohio too, but then got progressively worst. No track program.

D2 Schools:

1. Ashland- As far as I am concerned this is the only D2 school in the state of Ohio. They have two very young coaches who are talented runners but have not shown they are good coaches yet. Right now this team is very young so we will just have to wait and see how they progress in the near future. Traditionally they have always been a very good program though

Others include: Findlay and Tiffin both of which I would not recommend going to, however Findlay seems to have an ok sprint program as they had the National Champion in the 60 and 100m but he then got in trouble with the law.

D3 Schools:

1. Mount Union- Traditionally the best D3 school in the state and competes almost every year at the national level. It is true they lost their assistant coach who helped out in cross and in the distance events in track but the head coach for cross is still there and has coached for almost 30 years. He is the best coach in conference history with 48 OAC conference championship in both XC and track. His teams have numerous top ten showings at the national meet, including one second place and also in track with 4 runner-up performances at the national meet and even more top ten performances. He has coached over 10 National Champions in track and well over 150 All-Americans. Recruit some decent talent and runners overall progress very well. The team will return 6 of 7 next year for cross country and will be the favorite to win both the Indoor and Outdoor Chamoionships of the OAC. Also should most definitely be a top ten team at the National meet as well.

2. Ohio Northern- Probably had the best season in school history in XC. Second in OAC, third at Regional Meet and qualified for Nationals. They probably have the most depth of any D3 school in the state. They also have done a great job recruiting in the past few years and have an abundance of distance runners on the squad. Their track program is also very solid as they were second in the conference in both Indoor and Outdoor last year. Head Coach is more of a track guy and assistant coach is more of the XC and distance guy and I believe he is the reason for their recent success. They have a very talented mid distance runner in Jimmy O'Brien who should be place very high at the national meet in the 800.

3. Heidelberg- They had their best season since the late 1990's and seem to be on the rise with their recent coaching staff. However, they do lose their 2nd and 3rd runner but return All-American Scott Lasch next year. They are stronger more in XC then in track, they lack overall depth to become an overall good team. They did have the National Champ in the Long Jump though. Their head coach has made an immediate impact with recruiting some good talent and that has showed this past season. I look for them to keep doing that, and hopefully they will get an indoor facility b/c I do think that has hurt them a little bit.

4. Otterbein- In most recent years they would have been either 1/2 but lost two talented runners and are very young. As a team they have never done anything really at the national level in XC, but have obviously had some individual talent in Mike Sawicki and Mike Cauley. For the most part though there runners peak within their first two years and do not improve much after that. It will be interesting to see how the track season and next cross season will go with such a young team.

Other Programs: Case- has had a couple teams make it to nationals in the past and some solid individuals. Dennison- a very good girls team and one individual make it to national meet in XC this year.

NAIA:

1. Malone- Has a very rich tradition with a national caliber coach. Always get some of the top local talent and produces some very good runners. NAIA is different from the NCAA that in track, they have a number of different events including race walking and the Marathon. Both usually have Malone athletes in them and they do very well in these events. They are always a contender at the national level and believe have captured some National Titles in the past. No question they are the best overall NAIA school.

2. Cedarville- They beat Malone once and that was at the National Meet and that was because of one person. Sandy Roberts- was a two time Footlocker finalist in XC and ran around 8:50 in the 2 mile. And yes he went to Cedarville. But obviously for XC you need more than 1 person and they do have a good team. Every year they usually do have a solid team and have been known to produce good runners.

3. Shawnee State- Is usally another NAIA school that competes at that National level although they were a little down this year. I dont know much about them besides they are usually around 10th at All-Ohio meet and qualify to Nationals in cross.

Now I am going to rank all the schools together based on the following considerations: Performance in both XC and Track, Progression of the athletes, Coaching Staff, recruiting and overall talent. (This is just my opinion)

1. Ohio State

2. Miami

3. Kent State

4. Cincinnati

5/6 Malone/Mount Union

7. Ashland

8. Akron

9. Cedarville

10. Ohio U

11. Ohio Northern

12. Heidelberg

13. YSU

14. Shawnee State

15. Otterbein

Others: Dayton, Case, Dennison

Gave OSU the edge because Miami does not have indoor track. Kent is stronger in track. Mount and Malone are even, Mount is alot stronger overall in track. Actually as a whole NAIA is not very strong in track in Ohio at least. That is why Akron is ahead of Cedarville.

(I know their is probably a ton of spelling errors so dont hold that against me)

Your's:

1. Ohio State

2. Miami

3. Kent State

4. Cincinnati

5/6 Malone/Mount Union

7. Ashland

8. Akron

9. Cedarville

10. Ohio U

11. Ohio Northern

12. Heidelberg

13. YSU

14. Shawnee State

15. Otterbein

Mine: (these are the teams that are the best overall, concerning performance, not development)

1. Miami - Seem to run well enough throughout the year to justify this

2. OSU - Just don't run well enough throughout year

3. Cinci - Seem to run consistant with good talent

4. Kent - A lot of talent that isn't that consistant

5. Malone - A lot of talent due to heavy recruiting that does very well in XC and tends to fade a bit in track

6. Ashland - Very little recruiting that still results in good performances

7. Akron - Hard working runners that do well throughout the year

8. OU - Good talent that works hard but just aren't consistant

9. Cedarville - Average talent overall that tends to develop well.

10. Mount - Solid talent that improves a fair amount and tends to run well throughout the year.

Im confused...Akron has a sprint coach- coach distance? Isnt there a distance coach or something?

For a mid-major school Miami has outstanding recruiting classes year in and year out. They usually get their top talent from Indiana and Illinois. The actual development of most of the guys is questionable, but they certainly have had some very good runners over the last 10 years. Off the top of my head here are some "studs" they have had run for them over last last decade: Dan Huling (4:11), David Mitchell (4:11), Jerry Claunch (4:10, 9:18), Steve Padgett (4:10, 8:58), Doug Bockenstette? (4:10, 9:03), Ryan Clark (4:14), Pat Sovocal (4:11), and two other guys that I can't remember their names that went to the Footlocker meet in high school. Now how many guys has Ohio State had that ran that fast in high school? There are many more sub 9:20 guys that I did not name. Some do very well, some ok, some terrible. Probably that same % of success as any other program. Lastly, I say Ohio State is by far the program to attend if you had any choice.

[quote]kbrunner808 wrote:

I have said this before in some other posts and I will say it again: overall Ohio does not have very competitive college programs compared to the rest of the country year in and year out.

___________________________________________________________

Kyle, your Mount Union bias really shows in that one and I think the results are skewed by their championship team of over 25 years ago and a few studs that garnered multiple ind. champions or AA honors (ie Coop, The mad Russian, and Brown) that have been gone 10 years.

C'mon in recent years you had what? -- Eby was a one hit wonder in the indoor mile, Hoss placed in the 5000, and you were last in the mile. Did I miss anyone? You had a sophomore squeak in for one of the last AA spots in cross a couple years back but did nothing since? What have you done lately?

__________________________________________________________

Now I am going to rank all the schools together based on the following considerations: Performance in both XC and Track, Progression of the athletes, Coaching Staff, recruiting and overall talent. (This is just my opinion)

1. Ohio State - GARY WAS A STUDENT OF CROGHAN AND NOW THE STUDENT HAS BECOME THE MASTER. NOW THAT HE HAS MORE CONTROL HIS TEAMS SHOULD DO GREAT THINGS. PERRENIAL #1 WITH HIM AT THE WHEEL.

2. Miami - BIG DUKAROO FOR # 1 BUT THE GARY FACTOR KEEPS THEM #2

3. Kent State - HAS IMPROVED WELL AND COULD DO GREAT THINGS.

4. Cincinnati - DOING WELL APT RANKING AT 5.

5/6 Malone/Mount Union - BOTH CITY CAMPUSES AND ALLIANCE (sorry for the honesty) IS A DEPRESSED, REDNECK, CRAP-HOLE OF A TOWN.

7. Ashland - I WOULD PUT THEM IN THIRD

8. Akron - FACILITIES HAVE IMPROVED BUT COACHES ARE IN STATE OF TURMOIL AND PROGRAM IS GETTING USED TO NEW "CEO"

9. Cedarville - NICE CAMPUS AND GREAT TRACK. MORE RELIGIOUSLY ORIENTED THAN MALONE. NOT A BAD THING AT ALL, BUT YOU SHOULD BE PREPARED FOR THIS.

10. Ohio U - YOU HAVE MOUNT AND OU TRANSPOSED, MOUNT SHOULD BE HERE AT THE HIGHEST.

11. Ohio Northern - IN MIDDLE OF NOWHERE AND HAS HAD ISOLATED TALENT

12. Heidelberg - NICE TOWN AND NOT FAR BEHIND MOUNT. LOOK FOR THEM TO HAVE A GREAT NEXT 4 YEARS.

13. YSU - CRAPHOLE OF A TOWN AND DISGRUNTLED RUNNERS

14. Shawnee State - NICE RURAL LOCATION BUT YOU WON'T GET TO RUN TRACK NATIONALS OR CONF. BECAUSE THEY DON'T HAVE A TRACK TEAM

15. Otterbein - NICE CAMPUS, SUBURB OF COLUMBUS

Others: Dayton, Case, Dennison

Gave OSU the edge because Miami does not have indoor track. Kent is stronger in track. Mount and Malone (THAT IS A JOKE!!!) are even, Mount is alot stronger overall in track. Actually as a whole NAIA is not very strong in track in Ohio at least. That is why Akron is ahead of Cedarville.

TO THE ORIGINAL POSTER - IF YOU HAVE TO ASK THE QUESTION YOU PROBABLY DON'T BELONG AT EITHER MIAMI OR OSU AND YOU MIGHT STRUGGLE TO BE A DISPLACER BY YOUR SENIOR YEAR. YOU WOULD BE BETTER OFF AT A SMALLER SCHOOL THAT WILL DEVELOP YOU

Fair enough, I said that it was just my opinion and you can take it for what it is worth. And yes I do have a Mount Union bias. From my experience as a runner who did not make it to the state meet in high school to someone who made it to the national meet as a sophomore, I can say the program worked for me. My brother who is now a freshman there has already improved drastically in just his first season. Also Velliquette and Garro are national caliber runners at the D3 level and were not very good high school runners either.

It is hard for me or anyone else to say exactly how another program is unless they are in the program themselves. My whole considerations are from the results I see and hear say. So my opinion may not be very accurate, but like I said just my opinion. Feel free to agree or disagree. Also, most individuals are going to have a bias for the college they run for or have a strong belief in.

Well as usual nothing but criticism all over the place, cool.

The funny thing is that there is a neat way to solve this and someone thought of it a long time ago. It's called the All Ohio meet and it includes all schools in ohio from all divisions. Yea I know people will say its a hard course and is early in the year but head to head is head to head.

Here is a page with results from the past 5 years..http://bishops.owu.edu/alohxc01/aloh01mt.h

And kbrunner cut it out with the outrageous Mount Union bias because I think everyone is tired of you overhyping them. Yes they are a good team but they are not equal with Malone and certainly not head and shoulders above the rest of the oac. I will give you that they had a great year and should be congratulated for that but over the last decade they are not even the clear best team in their own conference. I'm not going to name names or give examples but your idea of development is questionable at best. Look at the talent on this years Mount Union team and tell me that any other team in the conference matches the credentials that they had in highschool. You should be ashmamed of yourself bashing on teams that really do develop runners.

Its time for everyone to start doing some talking with their feet....

kbrunner i don't think you got a single thing right in your post.

Chris Olinger??? I believe it is Brian

He ran 8:19 as a junior in europe late into the summer. That is tough to match any year and he still came back as was All American 3 times after it. Probably a little tuckered out at the end I am sure.

Jeff See had a pretty darn good track season if you ask me. He ran 4:03 and anchored the winning DMR team at Big Ten's. Yeah he may have run out of gas in May, but hey if all he had to do was run 4:10's at Miami I am sure he would last a lot longer.

Every program has some state champions who don't do great things in college. Matt Buzek has run 14:40 for 5k....sub-par for Big Ten standards but would be very competitive anywhere else in Ohio.

Rob Myers hasn't done anything for 2 years??? He made the World Team in the 1500 in 2005. Little bit of a down year last year but still not in need of your crucifixion.

Ohio is by far the superior university in Ohio. Down year this year but they will be back I am sure.