Help me break 30mins for 10km!!

Lack of threshold work. You need to run a higher % of your weekly mileage around threshold pace.

You might wanna ask Tinman at his training forum:

http://www.therunzone.com/SnitzForum2000/forum.asp?FORUM_ID=12

good luck

dont ask letsrun

drop me an email, I can help you out...

4 04/8 11/13 58/29 33 guy(i ran them either in college or shortly thereafter)--still coach quite a few guys, some trying to get under 30 min for 10k as well, Id be happy to help...give me a detailed rundown of what youd really like to do, what you plan on doing during winter, and spring, etc...I will get you there..

jcerge@yahoo.com

You will almost certainly run a sub 30 min 10km in the very near future and with your 14:14 5km and 8:25 3km you do posses the speed to do so. I ran a couple of sub 30's 29:51 and 29:56 in 1996 and did that of a track 5km pb of 14:27.

You should be capable of low 29 minutes I know guys that have only run 14:30-50 for 5km and have ran sub 30 your time will come you just need to get that bit stronger over the distance.

The schedule looks fine to me I would suggest however that you crank the mileage up slightly even though you are running enough for 10km maybe introduce more doubles and some type of tempo/threshold run in your schedule if you are not already doing so and get used to racing over the 10km often.

good luck

You are close. The guy who suggested more threshold work is correct. I would stick to a 20 miler, rather than a 15-20 miler on the weekend, maybe finishing it off at a faster clip. If you still don't get there, up your miles to 100+.

You know someone who has only run 14:50 for 5k yet has run sub 30 for 10k?! Now that is strength! LOL.

Seriously, he must not have maxed out his 5k. I think the normal conversion for faster runners is double your 5k best and add 1 min. That's with optimal training, slower types or those who run less miles add more like 1:30.

The initial poster is ready for a sub-30. He made a bit of a breakthrough in the 5k.

As someone said above more threshold work would help. Also his schedule doesn't have much rest in it. 3 workouts, a long run and a medium long run with only two easy days. That's tough.

easy way to add threshold is on a thursday before or after the short reps. afetral true threshold isnt 'that' hard if done for 20-30 minutes.

if your session is say 8x300 then try 15mins threshold 8x300 15mins threshold. or 20mins threshold 8x300. these kind of sessions make you extremely strong.

My only other suggestion would be turning the saturday long reps into a continuous threshold/tempo type run (about 30mins prehaps strides after 100-200m)

also prehaps consider hills (i have again had success with combining hill work with threshold runs before or after)

and if you feel you can handle an increase is miles then give that a try. just add a few more doubles.

ben I am in the same boat as you. I have a 5K PR of 14:14 as well, and have only run 30:27 on the track. I have gone faster on a cross course, but that doesnt count. I think a great way to get better PR's is to get a bunch of guys together who are attempting to accomplish the same goal, and run in the same big race. I bet if you, me, and 4 or 5 others with the same goals got in a big track meet together we would all be in the mid 29's. Having guys to work with and knowing all of you have the same goal and strategy is a huge benifit in my mind.

I broke all of my road bests including the 10km when coming from a marathon training block, I didn't run sub 30 but broke 32 when my pr was 33:31. I would suggest you increase your weekly miles and run 100+ for 8-12 weeks keeping the sessions going, then peak for a specific 10km. I am not in your class but the training principles still apply.

volume that high will only work well if you can handle the volumes below it and run well off of them...it must be a gradual increase, mainly during a base phase, and then drop a bit while upping intensity thru a training phase, then a race phase, then a peak phase...each phase gets slightly more intense and readies you for anything...

run 5 miles every morning, twice a day every day Mon-Sat

Get the average up to 95-105...........it will make a difference. Don't run too fast on recovery days (run 640-720p). No more than 2 session, one if racing (and more miles)

I have only run 14:40 for 5k but 30:15 for 10k, as well as 30:18, 30:22, 30:25 (alas I'm still trying to break 30 also).

Ben, I'm the opposite to you, I've run 29:53 and have a 5k best of 14:30.6. There are probably things I am doing in my training that would help you break 30 and likewise things you are doing that would help me break 14:30. Email me if you want and we can discuss off board.

Do you not have a coach? I thought you did and that he would be able to point your training in the right direction.

Best of luck,

Dave

Ben, get a decent coach who will give you enough quality 1-1 attention. Sub 30 10k guys not exactly growing on trees in UK at present so there is bound to be a decent coach in your area willing to help. Abs no disrespect to any previous posters but no way can the best advice come to you based solely on the 3 brief paras provided above.

Why go off board? This isnt a dating service. We all would like to hear your experiences.

What do you feel like in a 10k when you start breaking down? It helps to know that.

I always used to have my quads get tired, and I would also lose strength in my calves to the point where I couldn't run smoothly anymore. I got a lot better by running on thick grass for a lot of my miles in the summer and snow fairly often in the winter. And doing a lot of intervals in spikes at 5k-10k pace. More 5k pace. Not really a lot of intervals total compared to an average program, but always wore the spikes I raced in (Kennedy's worked best for me) and the vast majority at 5k or 10k pace.

This is just an example of what I needed. You might need something different. Your training has to take into account what you are lacking, and what your body will respond to. I got down to 29:49 and 14:31. Ran 85-95 mpw in the summers before XC, and then only about 75-80 in the winters with cross training added. Bad conditions where I live in the winter. Recovery is important too. Allowing for rest when you feel shot is important I learned.

contact me man, I can help you and get you running fast. Ive spent time with Vigil, Daniels, and quite oa few other top coaches and have a very well rounded program based on science, fun, and good old fashioned hard training/racing/tactics...ill get you there, man

jcerge@yahoo.com

Jason

75Reds wrote:

Why go off board? This isnt a dating service. We all would like to hear your experiences.

I suggested Ben email me because if he isn't coached then I might be able to put him in touch with people who could help him (I live about 30mins drive from Blackburn where Ben is based).

I'm more than happy to share my experiences of 5k/10k (in fact I even contribute an online training diary elsewhere). I could write a novel on it but I won't. I'll summarise by saying it will happen when you least expect it. Both my sub 30s (after 6 years of trying) were when I had been forced to back off my training through injury and wasnt expecting anything because I considered myself untrained. Several reasons for this. First the pressure is off. I didnt start my watch on either race, I set off at my own comfortable pace rather than trying to be dragged along from the word go like in my other attempts. And I was relaxed, no expectation from me or anybody else. On both races I came through from being off the pace and ran very even splits.

Secondly, I dont think we recover enough. On both occasions I had a full 3 month marathon training block in the bank in the months preceding the race. Then in both cases I'd been forced to cut my mileage from 110 to around 60 due to injuries. So I had the base, freshened up, sharpened up and kept myself ticking over while recovering well from everything I did. Maybe look at periodising your training into blocks in the same sort of way.

one of my primary components to the training is flexibility and injury prevention. i studied for 5 years under the Whartons, the best in the game, out of NYC. their flexibility and injury prevention/strength program is the best for runners, and is designed specifically to keep people healthy, especially runners.

please describe your track "intervals"