Kjell-Eric Stahl running Frankfurt on sunday

Doesn't he STILL hold the record for most sub 2:20 marathons run by anyone? He did at one time.

I think that honor belongs to Doug Kurtis, no? Stahl must a clost second, though.

Pretty amazing. Do you know anything about his training.

According to the article linked below, Kurtis did it 76 times and Stahl did it 70 times. Incredible.

http://www.michiganrunner.com/0401/kurside.html

I know nothing of his current training. I spoke to him last August and he said he had a month to go till retirement and that he was involved with an orienteering team; in what capacity I didn't ask.

I got the gist he might not have the time or motivation this year to break the record.

Thanks for the reply. What about his past training during the peak period of his career.

This link gives 70 sub-2:20s by Kurtis and at least 61 by Stahl. Other amazing numbers:

Khannouchi: 7 times 2:07:19 or faster.

El Mouaziz: 17 times 2:10:28 or faster.

Mekonnen: 30 times 2:13:23 or faster.

http://www.arrs.net/NB_Mara.htm

I have read about his training during his heyday and probably can dig put what I read later on. I recall that he did a lot of running on weekends, often something like two runs a day in the 9 to 14 mile range, Occasionally he had a 30ish kilometer course that he'd run and then only do a single run. He worked a full time job and I think might have only run once a day during the week, usually with a session of something like 1,000's. remember that he was almost always eithegetting ready for or recovering from a marathon, he probably averaged one per month and that had some influence on the infrequency of long training runs.

All of this is from really old memories, so don't bet your life on it. I'll try to verify it later. Anyway, best of luck to him.

I e-mailed Doug Kurtis a few years ago and he said that Eddy H. has third most under 2.20.

I read Stahl had a 30km terrain course that he ran rather quickly(tempo?). He said he knew he was in good condition if he didn't have to walk while going up "hand grenade hill."

Yeah, that 30k course is the thing I'd read about as well. It didn't seem, from what I recall, that he ran that thing on a weekly basis.

I think Ron Hill might have the fourth most sub 2:20s, but that was a while ago and he might have been passed by now.

Did you read it on marathon.se? I hope they interview him again soon.

That would be great if you can find it. Time kind of robs memory but I think there may have been a profile on him either in Runner or RW, I do remember a picture of him running along a stretch of beach.

I thought the article stated he ran most of his runs on the beach or soft surfaces. Other then that (which may be incorrect), I just can't think of anything else. I have always been interested in knowing how he trained because he is incredibly consisten particularuly during that period.To perform at that quality level with the frequency of races he ran is remarkable. Wasn't he working full time as an engineer at the time?

My storage system for old books and articles is a little, uh, uh, well, it's not the Dewey decimal system. If I see this thread tomorrow when I have some time, I'll find one of the things I'd read about Stahl and put it here. If you want to give this thread a bump if it disappears, that would jog my memory.

He was definitely working about 50 hours or so a week as an engineer. He was able to travel the world to run marathons because Swedes get loads more vacation time than we do and I believe he used that time to get away with pay. He lived in Aarhus in his best years and did a lot of running by the sea or in some forest near the beach, if I recall what I read and I think he explained his frequent fast marathons as partly due to the fact that he couldn't run fast enough to inflict enough damage to require a long recovery.

Sounds about right to me. Gotta chuckle about your Dewey decimal system, I used to be able to relate until a fire took everything: RW, Runner, T &FN (starting in '64), Marathoner, books. I really do appreciate your replies, I learn more as we go.

I ran against Stahl back in the '80s. As I recall, he had a "full-time" job at a utility company. (The quotation marks aren't meant to suggest anything other than the fact that "full-time" means different things in different industries and different cultures.) I think he usually ran just once a day, averaging not more than 100 mpw. As I recall, one of the staples of his training was a workout of long, hard hill reps. He was a serious orienteering competitor before he got into marathoning. I doubt that he did any serious training as a marathoner until he was well into his thirties. His most notable race was almost certainly the 1983 World Championship marathon in Helsinki, where he finished fourth, getting outkicked for the bronze on the track. (I think it may have been Cierpinski who outkicked him, but I could be wrong about that.) His time was pretty quick; somewhere around 2:11 or faster, as I recall. He was already in his late thirties at the time.

His PR for 10,000 meters wasn't much faster than 30 minutes. Although I have little doubt that he could have run 10,000 meters faster than that if he had cared to, he didn't seem to have much speed at shorter distances. He was just a very big, strong guy who could maintain a 5:00-minute-mile pace forever.

He told me that, around the age of forty, he started having heart problems. It sounded like a form of cardiac arrythmia. He said his heart would suddenly stop in the middle of a race. He said that Carlos Lopes had a similar problem at about the same age, and that it was the reason that Lopes retired from competition.

In many ways, Stahl's athletic history and training remind me of Jack Foster, another marathoner who switched to competitive running relatively late in life, then managed to compete at the world-class level in his late thirties and beyond, all the while training just once a day and generally not more than 100 miles per week. I'm not sure what lessons to draw from their careers. Perhaps they were just exceptionally gifted.

Don Kardong provided my favorite description of Stahl's appearance. Seeing Stahl running the Honolulu Marathon just one week after running another marathon in Asia, Kardong said that Stahl looked like Edvard Munch's character from "The Scream," with his long face and sunken cheeks, and his body seeming to cry out, "Another marathon? Noooooooooo!!!"

Sorry about your fire. I'm not at all attached to my house and sometimes think I'd be fine if it burnt down. I'd collect the insurance money, buy a cheaper one someplace and live the rest of my days on the insurance money that would be left over. Then I think that I'd lose all my running books and old magazines and don't want a fire.

Anyway, I dug out Hal Higdon's Master's Running Guide and he has a profile on Stahl. This would have been Stahl as a forty-ish year old. It said he worked about 60 hours a week for a telecommunications company. Once a week he did a session of about ten 1,000s in the course of a 12-13 mile run. On weekends he ran twice a day, 9-13 miles each time unless he substituted that 30 km run for the two shorter ones. On weekdays he'd run once and totalled about 80 mpw.

I also have, somewhere, a much longer article about Stahl that was in the old "Runner" magazine. I don't recall that there was much in it about Stahl's training that was different from what Higdon wrote although it seemed like the total overall volume was a bit higher, though only a bit. The article was written before Stahl became a master so maybe he cut the training back a tad when he hit 40.

Avocado's number,

I think Stahl's time at the '83 WC's was in the mid 2:10s. 2:10:37 comes to mind, but I wouldn't stake my life on it.

way off the subject here - but my new over-50, "Stahl-like" hero for motivational-get-out-the-door purposes is Watson Doyle from Purple Runner. Anyone up for a 30-miler Sat. a.m.?

Avocado and HRE thanks for the input, as always great to read both of your input. I had thought Stahl had claimed bronze at Helsinski in 2: 10:41 getting out kicked by Cierpinski. In any case I can remember rooting for him and was amazed at his race. Orienteering must have given him one heck of a strength base. Either of you know whether if he had a cross country ski back ground in his youth?

Again thanks for the replies.

At the 1983 World Championships, Deek won in 2:10:03. Balcha of Ethiopia took the silver, and Cierpinski outkicked Stahl for the bronze. Your recollection of Stahl's time sounds about right.

I don't recall any mention of a cross-country skiing background, but it wouldn't surprise me. I don't know what his height and weight were, but he seemed really big for a world-class marathoner. Late in a marathon, I remember hearing these big, elephant-like stomping sounds behind me, and then I felt this big guy come up next to me. I'm over six feet tall, but I looked up at this guy, did a double-take when I realized who it was, and said, "Mr. Stahl!" He looked over (and down) at me, and just kind of grunted. Then he powered away from me toward the finish line.

Orienteering had apparently been a big part of his life before marathoning. I think of orienteering as a weekend hobby of outdoor geeks with maps and compasses, but I guess it's a very competitive sport in parts of Europe.