had Cheruiyot not fallen across the finish line, would you have given him the race?

No. Rules are Rules.

Since it was the fault of the organizers for painting a slick surface, then I'd feel comfortable saying he deserved the victory. I understand your point about rules, but it was negligence on the organizers.

ttc wrote:I understand your point about rules, but it was negligence on the organizers.

I would think the organizers would be pretty much obligated to give first and second place the same first place cash, and call the guy who didn't fall the winner.

Interesting hypothetical question, though.

There was no paint.

Unless you can pick paint up like a piece of paper.

It wouldn't be up to the race officials to change the rules just because they felt badly that they caused the fall. The 2nd runner would have had a legitimate claim to the win, and the money that goes with the win.

If he'd tripped on a shoelace right before the finish line there would be no question that he wouldn't have won. The win and the money goes to the person that crosses the line first unless that person is disqualified for something that he does. You can't disqualify the person who crosses the line first from winning if it's something the race does wrong.

Pete, how would you then award points for the World Marathon series?

If I was the 2nd guy (non-faller) I wouldn't want to claim that as a victory anyway.

It's an interesting question. I would not endorse an absolute "rules are rules" position. There are some situations where I would give Cheruiyot the victory even if he didn't cross the line.

Imagine that, mere inches before Cheruiyot crossed the finish line, a Chicago marathon organizer tackled Cheruiyot and pinned him to the ground, preventing him from finishing. Would you really deny him the win in that situation?

I would be graceful and give Cheruiyot the first place finisher's medal/trophy. All prizes with financial value I would keep :)

zubrek wrote:Pete, how would you then award points for the World Marathon series?

Aw, man, you couldn't just keep it slean and simple, eh?

OK, I'll play along. If the guy didn't finish, he didn't finish. No points. I think the race organizers would have to pay him like he won, since the fall was CLEARLY their fault, but I can't see any obligation beyond that.

Of course, it's not my cash or points standing I'm hypothesizing about, so it's pretty easy for me to express an opinion... :-)

In my world, there is a rule about finishline interference that would cover the problem.

Well if I was the guy coming in second, I'd help him up and cross him over the line. The guy beat me fair and square but because of idiotic race organizers he fell a foot before crossing the line. There is something called honor.

Nope, couldn't keep it simple! That is one of the things that is really on the line for these pro marathoner types. I don't have a good answer for it all. After watching on the web yesterday, in my mind the winner is Cheruiyot.

The better question would be if he would have been considered disqualified for being assisted accross the line. All those medical people grabbed him and stood him up. Technicaly, if he didn't cross the line, he would have gotten no money.

If that would have been the case, my guess is the chicago marathon would have put the money to equal the win, giving both runners the first place prize pool, then the athlete would appeal the race to the marathon majors board and he would have been given first place points as well as the eventual winner.

Instead of painting the ground, couldn't they just paint the finishing matts that set off the chip timing. That way it won't get slippery.

Skinny weird Guy wrote:

In my world, there is a rule about finishline interference that would cover the problem.

Yes, there is a rule about finishline interference. But the question isn't whether finishline interference is permitted under the rules. (We know it is not.) The question is whether the *remedy* for the violation of the rule is to reward a victory to someone who did not in fact cross the finish line.

If you think--as you apparently do--that Cheruiyot should be given the win in the hypothetical scenario in which a race organizer tackles him meters before the finish, then why wouldn't you give him the win if a race organizer negligently puts something slippery right in front of the finish line?

Rulers are rules.

Every olympics athlete misses a contest because they were given bad information from the organizers of the games, or the bus they were told to be on got lost (as happened in Athens).

In ALL these cases the athlete is told "tough luck, try again in four years."

Following this logic that he should have been award the win as he was "close enough." What is the banner was 100 yeards from the finish? WHat if they had a blue line painted on teh street and they slipped on that. How close is "close enough?"

Why don't we go back and award the gold medal to Dos Santos in the 2004 marathon? Everyone agrees he would have won if that crazy nut did not shove him off the course.

I think he should be the winner. Him falling was the fault of the race. Imagine if they scaffolding had hit him on the head right before the finish. People are saying "he leaned back" etc. Whatever, the logo on the ground was clearly very slick. He doesn't look to lean back to me at all until he is falling backwards on his head.

I'm glad he actually crossed the line because if he didn't then it would affect the whole Marathon Majors thing not to mention the prize money in Chicago. Hopefuly the race would make it right and give him first place prize money etc. I assume they'd give Njenga the money as well but if I was Njenga, I've say I don't deserve the money you keep it. I did not win the race. What happened to Cheruiyot I feel was beyond his control. If Cornelius Horan tackled him 10 feet from the finish I would hope Cheruiyot would be decleared the winner as well. I don't see much difference.

This is actually an old question. The winner of the 1908 olympic marathon was disqualified for getting assitance to cross the line (he ran the wrong way when he entered the stadium).

The precedent has been set. The race is 26 miles, 385 yards. Not 26 miles, 384 yards. If you cannot finish, not matter how close and for whatever reason, you are DNF. No execptions, ever!

Sore loser wrote:

If I was the 2nd guy (non-faller) I wouldn't want to claim that as a victory anyway.

If you had a family starving back in Africa, you might want that money...

Seriosuly though, I get your point.

I think that RC would have a legit lawsuit on his hands, but the title would go to 2nd Guy.