workout 2 days before xc meet

id do it 3 days before the meet and make it a 3 min rest, youll benefit more from it...

You'll be fine, just do it.

important meet, no.

regular season training through? it's still a bit much, but can be done.

This early in the season I doubt it's an important meet, unless you're looking to impress some recruiters or something.

yea two days b4 a meet is fine to do a decently hard workout as long as its not something that it rly impriotant for you.Just take the day b4 easy

jjuuii wrote:

If I have a tough workout 2 days before an xc meet, shouild I take the workout a little easy?

It is a 4xmile with 4:30 rest between.

Its generally accepted that maximum sorness usually occurs two days after a hard workout (not the day after). Hence, I dont think thats a real keen idea to be doing any hard workouts 2 days before a race.

You can do it if you like... and I guess you can ask yourself, just how important is this particular race, and do you want to risk compromising your time by even 10 seconds... and just make the decision from there.

Not a good plan though, in my opinion. V02 max workouts are too physiologically demanding. The affects they have on your body and subsequently your running times can last for several days, and they likely should not be done anywhere near a race. If your coach is making you do them... then I say, just "dog it" and go easy as you can get away with, without your coach yelling at you.

LI Runner wrote:

V02 max workouts are too physiologically demanding. The affects they have on your body and subsequently your running times can last for several days, and they likely should not be done anywhere near a race. If your coach is making you do them... then I say, just "dog it" and go easy as you can get away with, without your coach yelling at you.

Lets hope that you never become a coach LI Runner. That is pretty stupid advice from you. Its so early in the season, that the result is secondary to the training that is going on in the background. Its far more important that the athletes get fit for the later races, so they need to train right through the early season.

This session needs to be done correctly if it is to benefit the athletes, so it would be best if they carry it out as per his instructions, surely?

There is no point in flying through the first half of the build up, only to find that by easing up for each race, you have missed out on all of the benefit from the midweek sessions.

What does your coach suggest? Then that's what you should do. Good luck.

billzeebub wrote:

Lets hope that you never become a coach LI Runner. That is pretty stupid advice from you. Its so early in the season, that the result is secondary to the training that is going on in the background. Its far more important that the athletes get fit for the later races, so they need to train right through the early season.

Your advice doesnt make sense from either a logical, nor a physiological perspective.

Two facts are all we need to know to settle this:

(1) First, the physiology. A VO2max workout done 2 days before the race is not going to translate to better results on that race day (worse, if any due to soreness and residual fatigue).

I suggested the athlete take it a little easy on the pre-race workout... probably defying coaches orders. Now obviously, taking it a little easy defies the purpose of doing the workout to begin with... so the solution to that is simple enough. Do a "make-up" VO2max workout (on the athles own time), after the race to play 'catch up'. Now this is likely where somebody is going to say that athletes should not do extra workouts, they should only do exactly what the coach says, no more and no less.... and that idiotic attitudes my friend, is why american distance running is the way it is.

Now, it could still be argued that its early in the season and so its not a real important race... just a prelim race... to kind of work the bugs out... most early season races are like that.... So yes, its good that he is getting in that VO2 max workout early in the season to help him later on.... but its still a bad idea strategically for reason number 2.

(2) Now the logical reason.

Physiology aside, there simply is no legitimate logical reason to have a hard workout so close to race day... when that workout could just as well be scheduled several days away, instead of the day before or two days before. This is simple common sense, and there simply is no defense to this fact. There is zero excuse for doing this.

Only a coach who isnt "thinking straight" would schedule such a workout days before a meet. Anyone who defends this is defying common logic and is simply stretching the truth to fit their argument. Its "just that simple". Your defending a position thats undefendable in my opinion.

There simply is no reason the workout could not have been schedules just a 1 or 2 days earlier. Its poor scheduling ability onthe coaches part, plain and simple.

LIRunner - stupid arguement.

the workout was 2 days before a small build up race...so freakin what? Big deal!

Athletes should confer with their coaches on this kind of issue, if they are not happy about it. YOU should not be telling guys to go behind their coaches back with extra workouts, and you should not be suggesting that they run their workouts easier than the remainder of the team.

What happens if the coach uses this session to select his squad for the upcoming race? You will look a dick.

You are trying to sound rightious, but the reality is that you're wrong.

talk to your coach or do the workout set by him

Adams State use to do that every week. Six time one mile in roughly 430ish

Not having that LI Runner, you are way off the mark as far as im concerned.

I believe that you should respect the wishes of the coach, considering that you dont know the coach, athlete, workout pace, full training plan, racing schedule, etc, etc.

However, im not going to waste time bitching over it, as you are obviously convinced that you're right.

Actually, it is this type of attitude that is more likely to be responsible for poor distance running. Defying a coach and working outside of a well thought out training plan is foolish.

Saying this without knowledge of the overall training plan makes you look foolish. You have no idea what the coach is thinking, or what their schedule looks like, and therefore should not be suggesting any modifications to his/her plan. I can think of many good reasons to run such a workout two days before a meet. Heck, I did it with my team last week (10 x 800 @ 100% vVO2max on Thursday afternoon, meet on Saturday morning). Reason: Saturday's meet was an early season tune-up and we are focusing on racing well for States in November. I know what is best for my team and I'm sure the coach in question knows what is best for this runner.

While these debates that pop up here on a weekly basis are great on a theoretical level, there is really only one answer to give this kid.

I'm assuming that you are coached, but have no idea whether or not you are a high school or college runner. If you have a coach, simply do everything exactly as your coach says. Questioning only leads to doubt, if you doubt that your coach is preparing you correctly, you'll doubt yourself on the starting line and not race well.

I've seen kids who have probably done some of the most unintelligent training imaginable under a coach go out and run great because they believe their coach has prepared them.

It is your coaches job to figure out what is best for you. It is your job to do that which you coach tells you. It is letsrun's messageboard job to dispense pointless information and idiacy.

Dr. Bong wrote:

Saying this without knowledge of the overall training plan makes you look foolish.

Heck, I did it with my team last week (10 x 800 @ 100% vVO2max on Thursday afternoon, meet on Saturday morning).

Ahh, the wonders of arguing pedantic points over the Internet.

First off, I think I can spot what this discussion is really about. This is about a very select group of coaches who think they can or should control what an athlete does in their own spare time. This is an old discussion... I dont much care to rehash it, but since I'm on that topic already.... might as well. Coaches who want to play "control freak" have their own special problems, and nothing I say is going to undo their stubborness. They are simply going to say "I know best, my athletes will do exactly what I tell them, when I tell them. They will do no extra running on their own, and they have to consult with me on every little thing they do, even if its on their own spare time...and thats that". Their is simply no arguing with that. The worst part of it is, people who are control freaks totally do not even realize thats what they are. So theres no arguing with that.

I realized from the first or second reply of this message thread that this is what people were really getting at. What we were previously discussing isnt even the real issue.

I simply touched the nerve of some control freaks when I said that the athlete should take a bit of his own destiny into his hands, if he feels it is the right thing to do. Contrary to you ropinion, the athlete has the right to make that decision for himself, and he has every right to seek competing advice from other people. If the coach don't like that, thats too bad for the coach.

The fact that certain people have a problem with that just shows what control freaks some people are. The very thought that their athlete has the right to take matters into his own hands... or that they should listening to competing advice from somebody else other than the coach... lord in heaven.... can't defy the almighty word from God himself, the coach.

One thing about control freak coaches is that they really, really, really go out of their way to defend other coaches. It doesnt matter how wrong another coach might be, control freaks always love to fall back upon the ol' "He's the coach, and you have to do exactly what he tells you, when he tells you, because he knows best".

---------------------------

If I'm wrong about this being a control freak issue (not that the control freaks would ever admit that thats whatthey are)... lets get back to the original issue. I reiterate the question.

(1) Name one legitimate reason that workout will benefit that person on race day?

or answer this second question.

(2) In what way would it harm the overall training plan by simply "swapping days", doing the harder workout a few days earlier, and just substituting in an easier workout closer to race day? Either way, the person is still doing the hard workout.... just not so close to race day.

People are arguing a position which is totally undefendable. The so-called "overall training plan" is irrelevant, because doing what I suggested in no way, shape, or form, compromises the persons overall fitness.

Your anecdotal story about how you made your guys do 10 x 800's 2 days before a race does not explain in the least why you thought that was a wise idea. You put the word "REASON" in bold letters... but you failed to actually give the scientific or logical reason for doing it. All you did was say, "this is what I did.." but failed to get to the explaining part. "Cause' I said so, and I know best" does not qualify as a legitimate explanation. Thats something a parent tells their child... but its not a suitable explanation for grown adults having a scientific discussion on the sport of running.

So to give you a chance to reexplain. I ask the question why did you chose to do a hard workout right before the meet.

The fact that you did the same thing as that other coach is probably why you are so "defensive" about this issue, and its likely why you are defending this other coaches actions.

Neither of you want to explain why you didnt just 'swap days', and make the harder workout a few days earlier... and swap in the easier workout a few days later (closer to race time).

Doing this would in no way compromise the "overall quality" of future training... it would simply allow the athlete to be more refreshed on race day.

I agree with a lot of what you say regarding a coaches role. A perfect example is a coach trying to dictate nutrition, etc. That being said, a running coach coaches running. This may seem intuitive, but what you are letting slide is that it is the coaches decision to structure the training. A lot of high school kids wouldn't have the background to begin making decisions about doing things differently because they wouldn't know enough to feel confident in their own decision making process.

That being said, I myself left my college team because I questioned too much of the training structure and process, and have been self coached in the 4 years since.

He is on a team, and while it's good to know the purpose behind things, the best way to improve while being coached is to listen to the coach and believe in what they say 100% (even if they are dead wrong). This has nothing to do with being a control freak, it's a practical expression of heirarchy and knowledge.

LI Runner wrote:

Its generally accepted that maximum sorness usually occurs two days after a hard workout (not the day after). Hence, I dont think thats a real keen idea to be doing any hard workouts 2 days before a race.

1) Do you really get sore from your standard workouts?

2) And even if so, do you let some soreness affect your races?

3) Futhermore, DOMS muscle soreness is a delayed symptom of muscle damage, not an immedite one. Muscle tissue can be regenerated and even stronger than preexisting levels, 48hrs after a workout... even near the peak of soreness.

hey LIRunner - dont think that you can bully guys into shutting up, when you are wrong

by using the phrase "control freak" a massive '7' times within your last post, you are trying to stop decent people from voicing their opinions.

all that you have done though, is simply repeat yourself over and over again, making little sense in some parts.

nobody is saying that athletes should not think for themselves, so stop suggesting this. what guys are suggesting is that 'if' the athlete is not happy with the layout of the schedule, then he should approach the coach (before posting on letsrun).

how do you know that this session is a hard session? can you tell us if it is to be run at 4:30 miling rather than 5:30 miling? do you know the rest of the program? maybe the coach is having them run 3 sessions per week, and does not wish them to ease down for every race. the season is only short remember, and athletes need to put a lot of work in if they are to achieve the best possible results at the end of the season. suggesting that they should ease up a couple of days before each race, then try to catch up with the program in their own time is ridiculous and unhelpful to the athlete, the team and the coach.

are you a coach?