Cram VS Aouita

it's all about money and ego, lad. cram took it to the little moroccan virtually anytime they went head to head.

Do you mean apart from the 1983 World Championships at 1500m? Or the 1500m in Nice in 1985 when Cram broke the world record just ahead of Aouita?

i'd say those were somewhat significant, wouldn't you? the dirty littleoroccan was quite the dodger. it was the same shite with coe abd ovett.

Aoutia ran a much broader range of races than Cram. I really don't think either of these athletes dodged anyone. Cram basically stuck to the 1500 and mile while Aoutia went from 800 to 5000. They did have a couple of great races against each other.

he definetly dodged. you are saying what you know by pure conjecture and what you have read from articles. i was there on the track with these blokes. trust that he most certainly avoided cram whenever he could. wasn't a bad decision, as he moved up to 5k for LA and ended up with oly gold. crammie wsn't so lucky...

I admit I have not done much research, but how do you figure he dodged in L.A. when he moved up to the 5000 and got a gold when Cram did not even win the 1500? Give me your rationalization for this? Maybe Aoutia, which I doubt, dodged the whole 1500 field and just not Cram in L.A. It is hard for me to believe that a man who would move down to the 800 as a clear underdog in 88 would actually dodge. Aoutia was a world record chaser for much of his career and maybe he did not meet Cram much because he was chasing a record in another distance. Why did not Cram go after Aoutia in other distances? I think Cram did not do this because he had nothing to gain, because he did not have the range that Aoutia had while Aoutia had much to gain by running many different distances since he was always very close and often below world record in all of them. I do believe Cram to be fearless, since he spent much of his career getting spanked by Ovett and Coe, but he only one who may have been more fearless would be Aoutia. Explain to me why I am wrong? I will listen or read, but I need facts. Just not that I was there. Tell me why you believe this to be true?

When will Webb and Lagat beat Cram's 3:46 mile PB.

he dodged in LA for the reason that he knew he would not have to face cram- he had no idea that cruz would emerge and then coe come back on the scene after his time away. he would spew all these things in the papers of how he would like to do this and that to the brits, then would arrange a 3k or even a 2k at the same meeting so as not to have to run the 1500. the race director in london even offered to have TWO 1500's at one meeting in order to not have everyone in the same race. it was the same thing that coe and ovett had done previously. yes, he was extremely talented. i will forego any and all of what i have heard while competing regarding performance enhancing drugs. that is another discussion all in itself. after crammie taking it to him in helsinki, then again to pip him for a wr in the 15, he decided to take his kit elsewhere. why would cram race other distances (aside from a sharpening 800 or two) when he was always known as a miler- had the wr for 15, the wc gold for 15, precocious as a youth over the mile? aouita was also predominantly known as a 1500 runner when he burst on the scene. he only went to longer distances on the international circuit later. aouita was certainly not fearless. he was as you yanks say, a "punk". that is something your magazines and articles won't tell you. he was a dirty scoundrel with an annoying high pitched voice that could crack glass when he spoke french.

Cram spent much of his career getting spanked by Ovett and Coe? I think Cram did his fair share of the spanking.

Aouita can make a solid claim to being the best middle distance runner ever. Until Geb's 1995 5000 at Zurich, Aouita's WR in the 3000 was the best race I'd ever seen.

from wikipedia

Saïd Aouita (Arabic: سعيد عويطة) (born November 2, 1959) is a former Moroccan athlete, winner of 5000 meters at the 1984 Summer Olympics.

Born in Kenitra, Morocco, Saïd Aouita dominated middle distance running in the 1980s at all distances between 800 meters and 5000 meters. He is the only man in history to run 800 m sub 1:44, 1500 m sub 3:30, 3000 m sub 7:30 and 5000 m sub 13:00. He raced and won against the Olympic champions Joaquim Cruz, Peter Rono, John Ngugi and Alberto Cova over their respective main distances. Between September 1983 and September 1990 he won 115 of his 119 races. The defeats were against world champion Steve Cram over 1500 m, Olympic bronze medalist Alessandro Lambruschini over 3000 m steeplechase, Olympic champions Joaquin Cruz and Paul Ereng over 800 m and world champion Yobes Ondieki over 5000 m.

Aouita's first major international competition was the 1983 World Championships held in Helsinki where he contested the 1500 m. In the final, the pace dawdled for the first 1000 m, tactics that did not suit Aouita, and he was outkicked by the kickers, finishing third. After this experience, Aouita decided to run 5000 m at the Los Angeles Olympics. The 5000 m final was run at a very fast pace set by Antonio Leitão from Portugal, which suited Aouita much better than the tactics used in Helsinki. He stayed behind Leitão and then sprinted past him on the last lap to win.

In the next season, Aouita ran two world records: at first in 5000 m (13:00.40) and then in 1500 m (3:29.46). Aouita's 1500 m world record was remarkable for its slow start. Aouita passed the first 400 m in a mediocre time of 57.0 seconds, at 800 m he was still just under 1:54 min before he accelerated dramatically. These outstanding achievements were preceded by Aouita's most bitter defeat. In a 1500 m race in Nizza Steve Cram became the first man to run under 3:30 minutes. Aouita sprinted the final 100 m of that race in 11.8 s and nearly caught Cram, but his dream of being the first man under the magic barrier was destroyed. In 1986, Aouita was the overall winner of the IAAF Grand Prix series. In 1987, Aouita broke Steve Cram's 2000 m world record with a time of 4:50.81. Only six days later, he broke his own world record for 5000 m, and in the process became the first man to break 13 minutes, finishing in 12:58.39.

For the World Championships held later that year, Aouita had provisionally entered the 800 m, 1500 m, 5000 m and 10 000 m (probably to keep his opponents guessing), but eventually decided just to contest the 5000 m. In the 5000 m final, John Ngugi from Kenya set a fair pace, but by no means fast. Aouita, always in control of the race, made his move just before the bell, leading a mass sprint for the finish that he won in 13:26.44.

Aouita sought new challenges for himself in the Olympic year of 1988. Instead of staying within the comparative security of 5000 m competition, the distance at which he was the reigning Olympic and World champion, he decided to concentrate his efforts on the shorter distances. At the Seoul Olympics he attempted to try the 800 m/1500 m double. Aouita easily won his heat and semi-final in the 800 m, but had his left leg heavily bandaged to protect a recently sprained hamstring. In the 800 m final, a very fast pace was set to try to nullify Aouita's fast finish. Aouita ran according to his race plan, but in the end he was outkicked by the 800 m specialists and finished third. His bronze medal made him the only man in Olympic history to win medals at both the 800 m and 5000 m. However, the race had aggravated his hamstring injury, and although he qualified for the semi-finals of the 1500 m, he withdrew before they started.

In the next year, Aouita won the World Indoor Championships in 3000 m. Later, he ran his last world record, breaking Henry Rono's record in 3000 m by the time of 7:29.45. Aouita did not compete in the 1990 outdoor season, and when he returned to competition, was unable to recapture the dominance he had imposed during the 1980s. His appearance at the World Championships, in 1991 at Tokyo, was a barely noticed eleventh in the 1500 m. A few days after the 1991 World Championships he won a race in Cologne where he defeated most of the 1500 m elite except the world champion Noureddine Morceli who was absent.

1992 started very promisingly for Aouita as he set a new world indoor record over 3000 m in Athens. However, the IAAF refused to ratify the record for formal reasons. In May Aouita won the Mile at the New York Games and a 1000 m race in Jena. However, due to injury problems he did not participate in the Olympic Games in Barcelona. Further comeback attempts in 1993 and 1995 failed.

After his athletics career ended Aouita worked with mixed success as a national distance coach in Morocco and Australia.

Flatters me to see, that of substantial part of my German wikipedia entry has been tranlated for this one

Point taken and thanks. To you Lars. When Cram was running at his best Ovett and Coe were all, but retired. There best days were past. I certainly mean not to desrespect Cram. He was a great runner for sure. His peak years seemed to come during non Olympic years. Thanks for the insight Portsea. I know not enough to argue your point.

remember that seb ran hist pb somewhere around '86 or so. in terms of times, i wouldn't say that his best days were over...

not disagreeing with you, his 1500 pr was 86, but his 800 WR was 1981

Coe ran seven of his top 9 1500 times before 85. Ovett ran 9 of his top 9 1500 times before 84. Cram ran 7 of his top 9 1500 times after 84. Like I said, they were at their peaks at different times. What made the Coe and Ovett rivalry so great is that they were at their peak at the same time. Cram was probably just as great, but he was younger and did not get an Olympic gold medal. Maybe if Aoutia would have ran the 1500 against Cram in 88 and Cram got the gold medal then he would rank up there with his country man, but it did not happen and Cram never got an Olympic gold medal. No doubt in my mind that Cram was just as talented, but he did not win on the biggest stage. It is just splitting hairs. http://www.gbrathletics.com/uk/mb99.htm

agreed. crammie was quite unlucky with injuries at inopportune times. incidentally, i was referring to coe's 1500 pb in '86.

both Crammie and Aouita were epo stars.

bracer wrote:

both Crammie and Aouita were epo stars.

I say Crammie was because he was part of that great epo era with Coe, Ovett and himself....Aouita because he trained in Italy with "Coach" Rosa.

Funny I remember the race when Cram set a 1500m WR.

Had Cruz in there who started to crack just before the bell - Cram's long run for home was primarily to beat Aouita.

Cram's Mile WR also had the same kind of run for home to beat an in form Coe.

He won the World's in 83. He's said he knew he couldn't just kick around and wait for Coe & Ovett to hang up their spikes. He knew someone else would come along (he knew Aouita was emerging) so went out and went for it.

Hardly dodging people. Couldn't really do that as a Brit in the 80s especially as there was a lot of first past the post selection (1988 Olympics for instance).