Reasons why Teg needs to run a 10,000 soon

In addition, he may never be in this good of shape again.

Great point. Hopefully he runs one soon before he gets too tired over in Europe.

Zat0pek wrote:1. Tegs perfomances updistance are consistently better than at shorter distances. His 3:36 from last night is a very big improvement for him, but nowhere near on par with 13:04. 13:04 is worth ~3:30 and change.

His ~1305 is worth about a 334 1500, not a 330. And he ran 336 last night winning by 2 seconds so it's not so cut and dry as you make it.

You bring up some good points (e-mail his coach)

They have a plan, though, and for this season, I believe that it is 1)staying healthy 2) experiencing the first full season (European) of his career. Finishing in mid-Sept. 3) seeing how much improvement they can get in the 1500/mile and 4)seeing what that does for his 5k potential

I have actually had this discussion with a few college coaches (about Teg) and others in similar circumstances over the past years. Many believe that if you try to "grab" too much, too early that it could have a negative result. Teg is having a fabulous season (I saw him often in hs and never saw this kind of speed for shorter distances). Like you say, right now in the right race, he could run a "monster" 10k. But, it is very hard to 2nd guess Teg and Jerry Schumacher right now! I imagine if he has teg type success with Solinsky, Bairu, and Withrow in the next 4-5 years, he may be considered the next distance "guru" of our coaching ranks!

slow wrote:In addition, he may never be in this good of shape again.

Precisely. Strike while the iron is hot.

Mrr82 wrote: His ~1305 is worth about a 334 1500, not a 330.

Not true by any credible calculation. Purdy puts his 13:04 at ~3:30 and change and there is a ~50 point differential between the two under the IAAF tables.

I know you like to quibble about such things. Just know that I know you are wrong and won't discuss it any further.

He's improving markedly by doing what he is doing now. If he goes to 10k now and doesn't practice racing at 1500m, how can he ever hope to close the last half of a WC 10k in under 13?

Mrr82 wrote:

Zat0pek wrote:1. Tegs perfomances updistance are consistently better than at shorter distances. His 3:36 from last night is a very big improvement for him, but nowhere near on par with 13:04. 13:04 is worth ~3:30 and change.

His ~1305 is worth about a 334 1500, not a 330. And he ran 336 last night winning by 2 seconds so it's not so cut and dry as you make it.

Where the official results from the Eugene meet? I saw the race summary on another thread, but nobody has posted the official results. That seems odd. Usually someone has them up within minutes of the race.

Reasons why not to run a 10k: He likes 1500/5k better.

Bob & Bob wrote:

Reasons why not to run a 10k: He likes 1500/5k better.

That's always been a big problem for Americans, IMHO. I've always believed that if Geb were American, he would have simply been a very good 1500 runner (WIC gold at 1500, 3:31 PR) rather than the greatest 10,000 runner ever.

Simply put, Americans will run that absolute shortest distance that there speed will allow.

I'm certainly not second-quessing Teg or his coach. I just wanted to point out that there are some compelling reasons and possible longer term advantages to getting into a 10,000 right now.

Gentlemen, please quit acting like these guys are robots or machines! Tables are just predictors, nothing else! Teg is a guy who most people who know him or have followed him closely is in "uncharted waters" with his new found "speed". He will never have the Lagat acceleration that "flew" by Bekele a few weeks ago! Nevertheless, he is finding some real balls for developing a long kick and the strength to do some things that mainly only the Africans (and a couple of others) can do!!!! He may be like Kennedy and get his mile/1500 PR at a young age and never get it faster??? Teg can run 12:52-12:55 down the road, but do not look for a 3:30 1500!!!!!!!!!!!!

slow wrote:

In addition, he may never be in this good of shape again.

Yes, but you have to believe you will be. It makes sense to use the non-championship year to work on your weakness. Webb runs 10,000, Teg runs 1,500. 2007 and 2008 will tell us if that idea for 2006 worked.

I see what you're saying. I'm not saying he should never run a track 10k. However, if he enjoys racing at the 5k distance better then why not? He can go ahead and occasionally run a 10k and see if thats something he enjoys. If it turns out that he wins more often than in 1500/5k then he probably would go towards 10k. Everybody likes winning.

what is tegenkamps weekly mileage? still in the 80's right? what was webbs mileage this spring?

i've seen some of the workouts teg did this spring via henry dennis's journal and they were 1000m, 2000m filled workouts but does any one else question tegenkamp's volume for pulling of a successful 10000m?

lars wrote:Tables are just predictors, nothing else!

...do not look for a 3:30 1500!!!!!!!!!!!!

They are not predictors, they are "equivalents." BIG difference. Teg won't sniff 3:30 IMO. What the tables tell you is that he is a better 5,000 runner than he is 1500 runner. That trend -- better at the longer distances -- has been true for him since his mile/2M PR's in high school. That's how the tables are useful.

That tells us he gets better as he moves up, and therefore is better suited for the longer distances, which in turn would favor him being a good performer at 10,000. And if the 10 turns out to be his event (which the trend indicates it might), he may want to run it in the WC and Oly years of '07 and '08.

There is, of course, a lot of wisdom in getting establish at 1500/5000 before moving up.

My point is that with this being an off year for international championships (no WCs or Olys), he could position himself very well for the next two years when there ARE international championships by running a 10,000 now. Then, if/when he decides to move to 10,000 in one of those years, he has a qualifier and some experience under his belt.

It's just ONE RACE, not a career move. It's called planning ahead" and "giving yourself options."

The 10K question is a very valid one; "throwing" one in now when it was not in the plans may be something that they are not willing to do at this point. The kid is obviously very confident right now (destroyed a pretty good 1500 field last night). Maybe doing something unplanned may jeopardize that confidence and put a damper on things. I do believe that he could run pretty close to 27:00 if in the right race. I would hate to see him get hurt. If healthy this kid could have historical seasons over the next 5-6 years (before anyone starts pointing out how far he is from the Africans, I am talking historical proportions for the U.S. distance history) I think that most people who have followed Teg through Wisco and have seen flashes of brilliance would have predicted that a healthy Teg could run 13:12-15 this year and maybe 3:37-8.

I can see a young coach, being very excited with what his athlete is accomplishing and being cautious!!!!!

you should know better than to apply clear logic to anything on letsrun. it just confuses and confounds the trolls and tools.

slow wrote:

In addition, he may never be in this good of shape again.

yes! So lets guarentee his burnout witha 10k..it worked for webb!

kiddin me? wrote:yes! So lets guarentee his burnout witha 10k..it worked for webb!

Oh, I completely forgot about the bane of all letsrun geniuses -- "burnout." Thanks for reminding me.

Better pass that along to all the 10,000 runners: ONE 10,000 in a season when you are fit = "burnout."

As for Webb, please try to grasp this logical fallacy: post hoc ergo propter hoc .