Pose = crazy???

txRUNNERgirl wrote:

It goes against everything I thought I was supposed to do (injury-wise).

SO DON'T DO IT/NO ONE IS FORCING YOU, tuts.

Seek out jaguar1 -- she had a similar histiry of injuries and went minimalist: racing flats all the time, and she's been training more (up to 90mi weeks I believe) and running faster (17s for 5k) than ever before.

Hmmm, training in racing flats? Discarding orthotics? Wonder if there really IS something to this, much against what I was led to believe in from the late George Sheehan days.

The idea that one's smaller ankle muscles become weaker through support from orthotics wear has often crossed my brain, much like one's eyesight becomes weaker from wearing glasses etc?

Who knows??!!

I'll talk about minimalism in general - as POSE is just a subset.

Its a long term thing. The simplest shoes give your legs and feet a chance to function as nature intended (just not possible in regular trainers). With a careful approach, and maybe some additional drills and exercises, you can vastly improve your mechanics with then allows you to run with reduced injury risk.

The transition period can be difficult though.

For all those pose sceptics - Haile Gereselassie is running almost perfect pose, except that he is landing a bit too far in front.Those who will say that his form is lousy, may throw a stone at me.

Gatorade wrote:

For all those pose sceptics - Haile Gereselassie is running almost perfect pose, except that he is landing a bit too far in front.Those who will say that his form is lousy, may throw a stone at me.

Sorry, that just winds me up. I could just as easily claim he is running on his forefoot but not POSE. I think if you asked him he would say that he is driving, not just lifting and falling.

Bekele does not run POSE

El Gerrouj did not run POSE

See, its easy to just say things - but is it in any way meaningful?

If you are going to put the case for POSE, at least say something of substance.

everyone stop being jealous of pose it is the best!

Pose style running has some criteria that can be seen if you watch frame by frame. Now:

1.If the rear leg (knee joint) doesn't straighten up - means he is not pushing.

2. If the ankle of the rear leg is in neutral angle (approx. 90 degrees - that is there is no plantar flexion) - means he is not pushing.

3. If, when the front foot contacts the ground, his rear leg is not trailing back and he is in running pose within 1-2 frames - means his ground contact is short cuz he pulls the foot off the ground very quickly ( if he would "drive forward", his foot would be landing in front of his body, so there would be much more time necessary for the core to pass the foot on the ground, means longer ground contact - it would take 4-6 frames, and you would always see a trailing rear leg).

4. So, if he is not pushing - it means he must have some other engine to propel him forward, which, except pushing off can only be falling forward.

Now, concerning " if you ask him" - of course, he will say he is not running "Pose" cuz he may not even have heard the term. Pose is not a running technique "per se" , but more a way of teaching a proper running technique, the key of which is to run economically, with a high feet turnover and short ground contact. Some people run pose intuitivey, not even knowing it. Just try to run barefoot on a rough concrete surface, and you'll be running "pose-like" without knowing it. Another pose-like example is Paula Radcliffe - and I guess she would also deny that she runs pose.

Gatorade wrote:

Now, concerning " if you ask him" - of course, he will say he is not running "Pose" cuz he may not even have heard the term. ... Another pose-like example is Paula Radcliffe - and I guess she would also deny that she runs pose.

Now how can one contradict such logic? Either they admit they are running POSE or the deny it when really they are running POSE. Heads I win, tails you lose. Works great for any name-brand athlete you want to use to promote your cult.

Yet one must wonder, even if they may not initially realize they are running POSE, why have NONE of these top athletes been convinced by the POSE literature and become believers enough to endorse the commercial operation?

Might it be because despite your supposed description above, that they are not following it? To say that Geb doesn't push off is plainly ridiculous if you've ever watched him race with his powerful stride and big knee lift.

It also strikes me as a little contradictory when you say there is no ankle flexion and therefore no pushing by Geb when a big factor in his transition from 10,000 to marathoning is that his 'popping' stride would be too much on his achilles. How can that be possible without significant flexion of the ankle as he drives off on each stride? How can you physiologically get the most drive from that ankle flexion if you don't fully extend through the knee to a straight leg at the end of a stride?

Geb may land on his forefoot, but he certainly doesn't run POSE. In fact, he has been a long time adherent to my own cult.

I've developed my own revolutionary running style. It's called FAST running. You can attend my course on it and I'll explain to you how to run FAST.

It's a proven system. People who win races run FAST. Pretty much everyone in this race ran FAST:

No one in this race ran FAST:

I can even provide photographic evidence. Somone running FAST:

Someone not running FAST:

The proof is obvious. Running with the FAST style is the best way to run. Send your cheque or money order to me and I'll send you a brochure and sign you up for my course.

I'd really like to know if anyone has had a bad experience with Pose or minimalism in general...if it has caused any injuries.

Asterix-

classic. Thanks for the laugh before I head off to work!

wat does POSE stand for?

P oops

O n

S idewalks

E xclusively

That was hilarious, Asterix. Thank you!

I'll start:

Profoundly

Oblivious

to

Scientific

Evidence

[The simplest shoes give your legs and feet a chance to function as nature intended]

I think that's a load of crap. "Nature" doesn't intend anything.

Proselytizing

Offensive

Sleaze

Engine

Piece

Of

Sht

Exercise method

txRUNNERgirl

Here is the skinny on Pose. Pose is not a cult or some crazy theory. It is simply a way to improve your running biomechanics which in turn makes you a more efficient runner. Better biomechanics also means that you are less susceptible to injuries. Period. Running with Pose form does not guarantee that you will not get injured as injuries can be caused by a number of factors. However, the likelihood of getting injured is IMHO reduced.

A few years ago, I was constantly suffering from lower leg injuries. I always thought my biomechanics were fine and I had a friend videotape me. I could not believe how much I was heal striking. Shortly thereafter, I was introduced by a triathlete friend to an exercise physiology grad student who was doing a 4 month study with Dr. Romanov regarding Pose. They accepted me into the study and we met 1x/week for about 4mos. They did all kinds of tests before and after including VO2max, video taping, and a running form test where they attached these styrofoam balls to all your joints so that they could create a computerized model of your running form. During the 4 mos., I struggled in my change. Some people changed their running form almost instantly, but it took me the full 4 mos. Most of the people who changed quickly were fairly new to running. For me, I had to undergo a complete muscular re-education. I was clearly the last to catch on. At the end of the 4 mos., we did the testing again with the styrofoam balls and my form turned out to almost be perfect Pose.

So here comes the most important part. Since then, I have been relatively injury free, but not completely. I did do away with my orthodics and I went to a very neutral shoe. I do not wear flats as I like a more cushioned shoe. Before I used to wear a very technical shoe like the Asics Kayano. Now I generally run in a Nike Zoom Miler. I train in a flat on days where I am running above AT.

Do I think that Pose is some sort of huge breakthrough? No!!!

I think we all ran a Pose like form as we were young kids. If you watch little kids playing soccer on a field, they all run naturally with a Pose-like form. As we got older, we got lazy and somehow started running a little flatter.

I know there are alot of critics out there, but I am sure that none of them really understand Pose. However, if I was to tell you that improving your biomechanics would increase your running performance by 2%, you might be interested in learning more. For a 3hr marathoner, that is almost 4mins of improvement. For an 18min 5k, that is almost 22 secs. Something to think about.