Lydiard or Cerutty

cerutty

cerutty

cerutty

cerruty...pioneer of the sport.

I am liking what I am reading. I often consider P.W. Cerutty the great forgotten coach. Maybe not so much here.

Lydiard....what did Percy develop, besides the great Elliot? Lydiard had Snell, Halberg, and great influence on Walker, Dixon and Viren.....actually no comparison!

Sadly, epo has eclipsed the great coaches, now you have mutts like Rosa (cardiologist) working his tragic, or majic with the knuckleheads from Kenya...

Cerutty was jusr so eccentric and cool. I'd love to run for him.

Halberg was with Cerutty and Snell was, I am pretty certain a visitor at Portsea.

Landy's development was with Cerutty.

Review of "Why Die" book about Cerutty by Graem Simms:

Athletic icon Percy Cerutty’s life (1895—1975) is a fascinating story of an unusual and determined individual. Graem Sims has captured his spirit magnificently. Following is the verdict from one who knew Cerutty well.

"It is exceptionally well written, and I couldn't put it down. You have given me new insights into Percy and a greater understanding of his genius and his torture. Some of the passages made me want to get the running shoes out and get back into camp for a few months and become a 'real man'. Congratulations"

Herb Elliott

Cerutty was Australia’s most enigmatic, pioneering and controversial athletics coach. He is best remembered as the exhibitionist eccentric of the Portsea sandhills who controversially trained the likes of John Landy and Herb Elliott in the Golden Age of Australian athletics in the 1950s and ’60s.

But his interests and ambitions transcended mere sport. After a complete breakdown at the age of 43 (1938), Cerutty set about reconstructing himself through natural diet and violent exercise. On the way, he not only performed extraordinary feats of endurance but developed an entirely original theory of human movement (based on the movements of wild animals) and "Stotan" philosophy that placed him completely outside of the square of conventional running theory – indeed outside all convention. He was an outrageous personality, but Cerutty’s exhibitionist ways in public were just one manifestation of an extraordinarily complex and passionate man.

His legendary camp in the sandhills of Portsea, on the tip of Victoria’s Mornington Peninsula, was effectively Australia’s first institute of sport, grandly branded the International Athletics Centre. Thousands were drawn there from around the world to hear his captivating lectures, eat their raw oats, lift heavy weights, and run.

Why Die? includes previously unpublished letters, essays and personal writings of Percy Cerutty, as well as anecdotes and reminiscences from many of the key figures of his time.

Key events in the athletics calendar

In 2004, the Olympic Games will return to its spiritual home in Athens. Percy anchored his philosophy (his “reason”) in Ancient Greece.

2004 will also signify 50 years since Briton Roger Bannister famously broke four minutes for the mile – one of the great quests between nations of the 20th century. Less well known is the fact that John Landy broke his record just seven weeks later – and might easily have broken it earlier had he been running on the properly prepared tracks of Europe. Through interviews with Landy (now Governor of Victoria) and others, and from previously unpublished letters and notes of Cerutty’s, the Australian end of this story is told for the first time. Landy joined Cerutty’s gang in 1950, but split with him after a disappointing Helsinki Olympics in 1952 – so Percy could make no coaching claim for the 18 months leading up to Landy’s record-breaking run. But he did anyway. The details of this rift are revealed for the first time.

In Why Die?, Ron Clarke reveals that he ran disturbed by a pre-race incident with Cerutty at the Tokyo Olympics in 1964 “You’ve got no hope, Clarke,” Percy goaded him in the dressing rooms minutes before the start. “You always were a weak bastard.” A typical Cerutty tactic.

Cerutty died at age 80 of motor neurone disease – without even thinking he was ill until the end.

Cerutty- conventional wisdom would be out the door!

[quote]yo PSAC thread wrote:

Halberg was with Cerutty and Snell was, I am pretty certain a visitor at Portsea.

ah, i believe they are both new zealanders......but i do love the name of that book!

Cerutty for the mind. Lydiard for the body.

Kind of like asking, would you rather be Herb Elliott or Peter Snell.

How about if Cerutty had coached Snell, and Lydiard had coached Elliott? My sense would be that they would both have been great champions either way.

How about if Cerutty had coached Snell, and Lydiard had coached Elliott? My sense would be that they would both have been great champions either way.[/quote]

No, I'd rather be John Walker or Eamon Coghlan. Anyway, all four of them did it without drugs.

Cerutty, seems like he had a rather spiritual quality.

Cerutty if for no other reason the Sand Dunes

skinny runner dude wrote:

Cerutty if for no other reason the Sand Dunes

The sand dunes are good if you're training for some sort of life guard contest...Lydiard had you run real blacktop or hard packed dirt trails...

Each of the coaches had their athletes train on what was available. There were plenty of trails and roads in and around Portsea, the dune however are what set it apart from many other areas.

As for the Halberg or Snell, at least one of them visited Portsea.

Portsea was a classroom more than anything. The people that visited came to learn how to live the life of a distance runner - or Stotan Life (developed by Cerutty). Cerutty gets a bad rap for claiming to be the coach of anyone that spent time at the camp, but in a way he was.

Cerutty was far more the intellectual than Lydiard.

Cerutty's training was more in line with the multi-paced training of the current Africans and far less structured than Lydiards.

I actually like a lot of what Cerutty did and wish there was someone doing the sorts of things he did today. But, haveing read "Why Die" there were some things about him personally that I wasn't too keen on. I don't know how he and I woild have gotten on.

Great to see someone bringing up some of "real" coaching gurus. Cerutty was "a maker of a man" as he himself put it. One time asked what kind of training he gave Elliot, he said, "I have no idea what Elliot does. I'm a maker of a man!" Cerutty's "How to Become a Champion" definitely had a huge impact on me in my youth. In fact, I had influence from this book before I came across "Run to the Top" which was probably the right order.

Both of them were a very much free-spirited man and a fun-loving character. It is very interesting, however, that both of them, both came from lands down-under, came up with "long aerobic development as foundation" for middle distance and distance running training as well as "go back to nature", meaning, "stop being a slave of a stop-watch" which I really do see the trand back to stop-watch, responding to some of the messages at "Lydiard or Daniels" thread.

One thing I can say is that Lydiard drove way too fast for Cerutty. Cerutty didn't like to get a ride by Lydiard because he drove too fast!

I don't think Snell never visited Portsea. I even question Halberg though he might have. Cerutty had a lot of respect for Halberg. Bill Baillie did visit Portsea though Cerutty decided that Baillie was no good. I don't think Snell would have ever made it as a great runner as he did with Cerutty. I think Snell is way too intellectual to accept things Cerutty would preach. And Snell probably would have come across way too "weak" mentally to Cerutty. Elliott under Lydiard would have been an interesting story...

Both these coaches remind me so much of how coaching is in Japan which I really don't see anywhere in the US.

I know that Baillie and Halberg had a stretch of time when they lived in Oz, along with Bill Rodger, I think. There was some contact with Cerutty, but I've never been sure how extensive it was. Maybe Kim got some stories from Bill that he'll put here.