Training tips for a 2:30 marathon

80-99 in singles???... gradually build to long tempo runs at a good pace... have long run weekly.

As you suggested, sub-2:30 should be a breeze. Maybe you should train for the sub2:20 you're certainly capable of, that way, even if you do blow up, you'll be under 2:30, but you might not blow up. Then, 2:37 will be a funny story.

Just wanted to say good luck. We are cheering for you. I'd look to "hedge" against the downside of blowing up by being conservative in the beginning.

I've personally found it helpful to make sure I get some long runs in all on the roads--if I do everything on trails, a road marathon just beats up my legs too much. Also some long tempo runs on the road seemed to help me. It sounds like you have speed to spare for a sub-2:30, so you just need to prepare your legs for the beating they're going to take and the amount of time you'll be on your feet.

I'd recommend making sure you are getting in a decent number of long runs, a couple of which might approach marathon pace for part or all of the run. I know a runner with short distance PR's of 1:59, 4:04, 8:40 who ran 2:28 on no more than 90 miles per week, all in singles, with even splits in the race (well, second half 6 seconds faster than first half). It will take discipline on the long run and restraint in the first 25 - 30K of the race, but I have no doubt that you can run faster than 2:30 on somewhat less than 100 miles a week.

Yes, I should have said that I don't at all advise going out in the slightest bit "hard". I was just trying to say that you (given your talent) could train for a 2:20ish marathon, subsequently making the 2:30 time an afterthought (or a seriously "easy" thon). I was NOT suggesting trying to build up a time cushion by going out in 70 (particularly if you're only trained to go 2:28-30). Good luck.

What are your workouts like? With your PRs, you're obviously talented in midle distances, and I wonder if you're running your intervals to fast, or taking too much rest, or simply running the wrong type of intervals. With that middle distance background, I bet it's tough to try to relax when you need to on intervals.

What mileage can you run, given your work?

My PR's are much slower than yours (2:07, 4:12 and 9:05).I ran 2:36:57 and I have never gone over 66 miles in a single week.I probably averaged about 50 a week when I did that. I would continue to race to stay sharp and be doing a 16 to 21 miler every other weekend. I think that tempo runs are really key to learning how to handle the longer distances.I also did a 25K race (1:27:59) about 10 weeks before the marathon and a 30K (1:47:54) race 4 or 5 weeks before the marathon and they really helped me gauge where I was at and what I could handle. All of the charts and training indicated that I'd be able to run 2:32-2:33 and I wasn't too far off of that (last 3 miles of the marathon felt like death).

Good luck to you.

LTCM,

Random question, but were you a Gopher?

Train a little more & hit 2:17-18, you are blessed with talent.

Thanks very much to everyone for the feedback. To answer a few questions, I've never been high mileage at all. Last marathon in 02 I maxed mileage in the fifties with a few long runs of 20 or so. I work 60-80+ hours a week but I can function on 5-6 hrs of sleep so I can find the time. I've never trained correctly for a marathon which probably explains the deviation in my PR's/marathon times.

Morceli, right conference, wrong team. Although I know almost every Gopher who ran under Plas from 1996-2000...are you one of them?

John Meriwether wrote:

Just wanted to say good luck. We are cheering for you. I'd look to "hedge" against the downside of blowing up by being conservative in the beginning.

Make sure you prepare for those 6 sigma events.

LTCM,

here's the best advice I can offer you: try to ignore the urge to go with the leaders at the start, and deliberately run 10-15 s/mile slower than your goal pace for the first little bit, and gradually ease into a faster pace. Try to hit your goal average pace by the half, and then gradually speed up through the second half.

Talent in the 1500 isn't the prime ingredient for a sub 2:30 marathon. The fact that you probably have good running economy as well will. Your mileage looks too low to ever crank out a quality marathon. If you can run sub 2:30 on 50-60 a week, you should quit your day job and get serious about your running. I'll stand on my head to watch if you can run 2:20 on such mileage. You need to learn to respect the distance of the marathon a bit more than you seem to do here. Isn't there some way that you can arrange your schedule to get at least six weeks of 70-80 miles per week starting ten weeks out from your goal marathon? If so, I bet you'll find you feel better in that last 10K. Of course, you may also find that you need more sleep as well.

I never topped 100 mpw for any of my marathons, instead would run 70-85 mile range due to work and family duties. Since I was putting in less mileage, I made sure to keep the quality up at least 4 days a week. For an 85 mile week would run 9 or 10 workouts.

Also ran as many 10 mile races and half marathons as possible. Trying to get used to the distance. I too had inconsistency problems in the marathon but still managed to run 4 sub 2:20 marathon out of my 12 marathons. Also a couple of low 2:21's and then some blow ups/DNF's. Had 2:16:09 PR and 3:53 1500m PR.

I'd suggest quality over quantity given your work schedule. Skip the garbage miles, just make sure you get 1 medium distance tempo run, 1 steady state 10 miler and 1 long run per week during an 8 week build up.

And also like someone else stated, go out the first 13 miles feeling like you ran too slow. It's more fun passing guys the last 6 miles than counting the number of guys that come from behind to get you. Good luck.

Charlie

Are you the Charlie Gray that just ran Hospital Hill at 49 and ran like a 1:14? If you are, simply amazing. Congrats and thanks for the advice on this board. You are one I will truly listen to in future posts.

Charlie:

Appreciate your input. How fast do you run tempos, steady states, and long runs? What about the filler runs in between those 3 staple workouts?

Yes I confess I am 49 years young. And feeling like it more days than not. Only had 1 13 mile long run before the KC half marathon, I was happy to break 1:15 on that course. Plus I was only 1:25 behing Curp so I beat him in the age graded run, those extra 5 years I have on him are good for something.

Long runs were run at a hard but controlled effort. With a 48:40 10 mile PR, our 10 milers were run most times in the 53:00 to 55:00 range. hard but still being able to talk a bit. The long runs were done at 5:45 to 6:00 pace. Rarely ran the off days slower than 6:15, went more by feel. Somedays feeling OK I'd run my rest days at sub 6:00 pace.

Tempo runs often were run in a local 10k race. Run first, third and fifth miles in sub 4:50 and "recover" on 2nd, 4th and 6th miles in 5:30 pace. So I'd run a workout race in around 32:00.

Good Luck and if you can't run the quantity then make sure you run the quality. I always liked Greta Weitz's comment about LSD, "Long slow distance makes long slow distance runners".

Usually the difference between 2:30+ and sub-2:30 is performance over the last 10K. Mostly it's just a matter of maintaining pace to the finish. I'd suggest both of these workouts that were a great help to me in reaching sub-2:30.

- 18-24 mile long runs gradually speeding up to last 5-6 miles at 10K-half marathon pace.

- 10 mile run at marathon pace followed by 6 x mile all out on track with easy jog 400 rest.

I echo what "chgray" said (FWIW I have borken 2:30 several times). IMO, if you can't do the quantity you want, get quality. For most of my sub-2:30s my mileage peak during the cycle would be in the 90-95 mpw range, but I did some furious 10-14 milers in there. And I didn short (3-4 mile) morning runs 3-4 days a week, HARD.

w/o high volume your late miles could suffer, mine walways did and I think lower volume is why, but with luck you can minimize your negative theta