Junk miles?

i would never call them that. but if you could add some of that mileage onto your single runs it would most likely be more beneficial. but i definitely believe those are better than nothing.

I think junk miles comes from the RW days of encouraging people to run less. You know, the run a marathon on 3 days a week crowd?

They called anything that wasn't a hard workout junk miles. Not true, we now know that running miles helps- fast, slow, hills, speed. Just run.

I'm not so sure about that. I think every runner is different and some may be better of doing less mileage at the higher arerobic end than real drag ass type stuff.

What's a 16 min. 5K guy, for example, benefiting from a 6 mile run at 7:30 pace? He'd be better off doing a 3 miler at 6:15 pace. Unless, of course he feels he needs to recover.

I'm a 15:30 guy with definite potential to go faster and I do several runs around 7:30 pace. (this morning I did one in fact after a tough 11 miler yesterday) Sometimes, especially during the hot days of summer you need to really go out and just let your body completely recover. Whether or not those are junk miles for me is yet to be seen.

You are correct, and if oyu analyze all the bad advice RW gave out, it basically told people not to do recovery runs. Their advice was geared towards the average working people who did not want to dedicate themselves to running. They did some short, hard workouts, other stuff, not the easy days a real runner would take, and they were socialble at their races.

It expanded into the high school world (from the parents) and, lo and behold, we were running lower mileage.

I realize that there are many ways to train- some with high mileage, some wihtout. but I really don't think anyone will be competitive internationally on low mielage. The best runners simply run alot.

Sure, as long as they don't hurt.

redf wrote:

What's a 16 min. 5K guy, for example, benefiting from a 6 mile run at 7:30 pace? He'd be better off doing a 3 miler at 6:15 pace. Unless, of course he feels he needs to recover.

I would say that definitely, given 2 workouts a week, a 5k runner is much better off doing 6 miles on his other runs at 7:30 pace than 3 miles at 6:15 pace. Bettter yet, 10-15 mile days at 7:30 pace. I ran 15:08 this year on the track (I am 36 years old) and I rarely do a run under 7:00 pace except for my workouts. Your statement is a myth that disregards everything we know about aerobic training. I would say the opposite. Why should I guy whose 5k race pace is 5:10 ever be running at 6:10 pace? He should either be using his quanta of energy to do much higher mileage at a slower pace (an aerobic run is an aerobic run and the same adaptations occur at the low end as the high end - better to spend more time in this zoe) or doing runs much faster (continuous runs within :20 per mile of his 5k pace).

A good friend of mine who turns 37 this fall ran 14:38/30:12 on the track this season never runs faster than 7:00 pace except on workout days and says I run too hard. Of course he runs at least 100 a sweek in singles with some added doubles during base and runs solid and purposeful workouts.

agreed. redf doesnt know what the hell hes talking about.

///\/// wrote:

agreed. redf doesnt know what the hell hes talking about.

I think he actually has a good point. Why does every runner have to do mileage to be a better runner? Quality vs. Quanity.

i like the approach of hicham el guerroujj.

I am now after a base of easy running changing to harder runs of 30 - 40 minutes. And an evening run or workout. I mean morrocans ran great so did people that jogged adn worked hard on their sessions. There's many approaches.I'll try many of them :-).

redf hasnt a clue.id say he is a 16min 5k runner and i wonder why.I do all my miles slow-steady.

some runner wrote:

I think he actually has a good point. Why does every runner have to do mileage to be a better runner? Quality vs. Quanity.

How is 6:15 pace quality for a person racing at 5:10 pace? That is no more quality than 7:00 pace is. I believe in quality to, hence my workouts are hard and purposeful (most folks who run so fast on easy days do workouts that are scarcely more challenging and aren't the best for training the attribute they are seeking to improve). You need various adaptations that must come together to perform as a distance runner and you get diminishing marginal returns quickly from every component except for aerobic conditioning. And aerobic conditioning is better stimulated by high volumes at the low end of the aerobic zone than by low volumes at the high end.

Quantity IS quality.

Brian,

You're definitely running well right now. Just out of curiosity, what sort of mileage are you averaging per week, and are you getting most or all of it in singles or are you doing a few doubles?

Brian wrote: Quantity IS quality.

thank you so much for saying that. i dont know why people think that quality always = speed. its ridiculous. a quality run is one done at the correct intensity for the correct duration with the correct amount of rest in order to reap the benefits that certain run can provide. a long run is done at an easy aerobic pace in order to reap certain benefits. a tempo run is done at a certain aerobic threshold pace for a certain amount of time in order to reap different benefits. running your long run at your tempo pace (or slightly modified tempo pace) for as long as you can does not help you as much as just running slower for a proper long run and doing a proper tempo workout later in the week. running too fast in your recovery run wont let you recover which is the whole point of the run. i dont understand why this is so hard for people to understand.

as far as volume goes, its up to you to increase until you feel you cant handle it, drop down, find your "sweet spot" and move on from there. most people i hear complaining about high mileage, either never did it and just assumed it wasnt for them, OR they did it incorrectly, got hurt, and swore to never do it again. neither is the way to reach your potential.

My training sin is lack of periodization. Winter and Spring I was averaging low 80's as in hitting low 80's in singles pretty much every week regardless of my race schedule. Now I am probably closer to 90 a week and just doiong much higer volume, strength workouts less frequently. It is funny that I am advocating higher mileage because this is relatively low mileage, but I try not to make a virtue of my training foibles.

I like to think of it as having a given quanta of energy to expend on training and that there is some relationship between fatigue, speed, and volume. Obviously, only a fool would think the best training for a 5k is to race a 5k every day, so even low-mileage folks acknowledge that something less than 100% quality has a purpose. You can expend your quant of energy running less mileage harder, or more mileage easier, or some combination that train the various attributes sought. My problem is I think I have pretty well mastered the idea of what combination of ingredients are best in a given week. My problem is making myself do what I know works in terms of seasonal and yearly periodization. I have no trouble cutting back mileage and increasing intensity if I am racing well, but often you hae to take that step before you get the feedback of good racing. And I have a hard time switching gears back to mostly endurance training while I am still racing well and I need the stimulus of a few racing disasters to make me switch back to that endurance/strength mentality. And even when I do periodicize, we are only talking about 10 mile/week differences. But when I train this way, I am aware that I am probably not doing the best thing for my long-term racing (but maybe the best thing for doing some decent racing all year) and I am instead under the thrall of other psychological motivations.

if you can run a 30 min 10k a 1450 5k or a 415 or better mile....then anything slower than 6:45 per mile on your long road runs or morning runs is junk miles.....(but, to be honest, I racked up alot of junk miles in my career of 100 to 130 mile weeks....morning 6 miler was always easy....tues/thurs runs were easy....mon/wed/fri or sat were the hard days, intervals on mon...hard 10 miler on wed hills on fri or sat.....If I had to do it over again? Maybe drop the mileage a little bit and increase the speed on my distance runs.

In college Lagat would never run over 60 miles a week and took sundays off. Did lots of quality. . .I believe everyone is different. . different strokes for different folks. Some of it probably depends on your genetic make up. . . ??????????

mr. common sense wrote:

if you can run a 30 min 10k a 1450 5k or a 415 or better mile....then anything slower than 6:45 per mile on your long road runs or morning runs is junk miles.

BULLSHIT!!